TREASURY  DEPARTMENT 
BUREAU  OF  WAR  RISK   INSURANCE 

DIVISION  OF  MILITARY  AND  NAVAL  INSil  J'' ^^^-''^^^'^ '  REG  ONAl  LIBRARY  FACii  iTV 


BuHetin   No.  3 


AA    000  621  692    3 


FAMILY  ALLOWANCES,  ALLOTMENTS,  COMPENSATION,  AND 
INSURANCE  FOR  THE  MILITARY  AND  NAVAL  FORCES  OF 
THE  UNITED  STATES  PROVIDED  UNDER  ACT  0?  CON- 
GRESS APPROVED  OCTOBER  6,  1917 


Explanation  submitted  by  Hon.  Julian  W.  Mack,  of  the  pro- 
visions of  the  Military  and  Naval  Insurance  Act,  presented  at 
a  conference  of  officers  and  enlisted  men  of  the  Ar.ny  and  Navy, 
held  in  Washington  on  October  16,  17,  and  13,  1917 

Tiiis  explanation  has  the  full  approval  of  the  Bureau  of  War 
Risk  Insurance 


Approved: 


vIaA  6</vvv/  C-. 


Director  of  t/ie  Bureau  of  War  Risk  Insurancz 


S'.cfdcry  cf  Ik:  Treasury 


-aC>^-- 


\°>'i'^ 


\. 


0 


^- 


WASHINGTON 

GOVERNMENT  PRINTING  OFFICE 

J91V 


SRLF 
YRL 


SCOPE  AND  MEANING  OF  ACT  OF  OCTOBER  6,  1917,  PROVIDING  FOR 
fXNlllY  ALLOWANCES,  ALLOTMENTS,  COMPENSATION,  AND  INSUR- 
ANCE FOR  THE  MIUTARY  AND  NAVAL  FORCES  OF  THE  UNITED 
STATES. 


HON.  JULIAN  W.  MACK. 

Hon.  Julian  W.  Mack.  ]\[r.  Chairman  and  iientlemen.  I  think  that 
it  would  be  Avell  for  all  of  you  to  read  through  the  bill.  I  fissuine 
thiit  verj'  few  of  you  are  lawyers,  and  it  may  seem  to  you  highly 
technical.  And  yet  you  will  have  to  read  it  through,  and  you  will 
have  to  read  it  through  a  great  many  times,  so  you  might  just  as  well 
begin  right  novv\  While  you  can't  grasp  it  at  a  first  reading,  and 
probably  won't  grasp  all  of  the  details  at  a  tenth  reading — none  of 
us  have  been  able  to  do  that — yet  you  nuist  thoroughly  acquaint  your- 
selves with  the  words  and  the  interpretation  of  the  act,  and  with  all 
of  the  bulletins  that  are  going  to  be  sent  out  by  the  bureau  explana- 
tory of  the  act,  if  you  are  to  perform  the  duty  for  wliich  you  were 
called  here.  The  essential  purpose  of  this  meeting  is  to  acquaint  some 
men  from  each  cantonment  as  thoroughly  as  may  be  possible  in  a 
three  days'  session,  of  course  relying  primarily  upon  their  own  efforts 
to  acquaint  them  with  the  purpose  and  scope  of  this  bill,  not,  how- 
ever, for  their  own  good,  but  that  they  may  be  torchbearers  to  their 
fellows  in  the  various  camps  and  cantonments. 

The  bureau  purposes,  of  course,  sending  out  literature,  but  there  is 
nothing  like  the  human  touch  and  the  human  word  personally  deliv- 
ered to  bring  to  men  a  message  such  as  this,  for  it  is  a  real  human 
message.  It  aims  to  do  justice  to  the  men.  The  underlying  thought 
of  the  framers  of  this  act.  the  underlying  thought  of  the  Secretary  of 
the  Treasury  in  advocating  this  act,  and  the  underlying  thought  of 
Congress  in  enacting  the  law  in  the  shape  in  which  it  has  emerged, 
has  been  this:  That  a  fair  and  reasonable  measure  of  justice  to  the 
men  and  to  their  families  is  the  least  tliat  is  due  them  from  the  entire 
people  represented  by  the  Ciovernment.  And  it  is  that  thought  tlitit 
we  are  going  to  endeaAor  to  bring  home  to  you,  that  thought  which 
we  hope  through  you  to  bring  home  to  every  man  in  the  military  or 
naval  forces  of  the  United  States;  because  unless  the  men  thoroughly 
understand  the  fundamental  principle  of  this  act,  they  won't  take 
advantage,  as  we  want  them  to  take  advantage,  of  all  of  the  benefits 
and  privileges  that  the  act  grants  to  them. 

Now,  gentlemen,  1  have  the  one  distinct  purpose  of  trying  as  best  I 
may  to  acquaint  you  with  this  law,  acquaint  you  with  it  fully,  and 
then  to  answer  the  doubts  and  difficulties  that  will  naturally  i^resent 
themselves  to  you.  It  is  not  at  all  eas3'  to  grasp  a  law  that  covers  so 
many  diii'erent  things  as  this  do(.'S  anil  that  is  so  detailed  in  its  pro- 
visions as  this  neccssai"ily  had  to  be.  And  yet  it  is  absolutely  esr^uUial 
for  you  to  understand  not  only  the  broad  outline  but  every  single 
detail  of  most  of  the  sections  of  the  act. 


i  LIFE    INSUEAXCE^   ETC.^   TOIl    SOLDIKKS   AND   SAILORS. 

But,  before  starting  on  an  explanation  of  the  law,  it  behooves  me 
■svitliout  the  slightest  degree  of  undue  humility  to  s:dj  that  the  re- 
marks that  were  made  about  me  this  morning  as  to  my  connection 
with  the  law  were  greatly  exaggerated.  I  do  not  underestimate  tliem 
at  all.  I  deem  it  the  greatest  opportunity,  the  greatest  privilege  of 
my  life,  to  have  been  given  this  opportunity  to  do  my  bit  toward  the 
war  service  in  this  particular  constructive  way.  But  it  is  not  my  law 
ftt  all;  I  was  only  one  of  many.  Happening  to  be  selected  as  chair- 
man of  a  committee,  iiaturally  I  liad  to  guide  the  drafting  of  the 
measure  and  the  piloting  of  it  through  Congress.  But  a  great  many 
had  a  larger  or  smaller  sliare  in  tlie  v.  ork ;  it  is  no  one  man's  law,  and 
no  one  man's  name  ought  ever  to  be  associated  with  a  law  of  this  kind. 
It  is  the  soldiers'  and  sailors'  compensation  and  insurance  act.  It  is 
for  them,  and  every  one  of  us  who  has  had  anything  to  do  with  it 
wants  to  have  his  individuality  sunk  and  his  connection  with  it  for- 
gotten, so  that  the  fact  that  it  is  for  the  soldiers  and  sailors  may 
always  be  remembered.  And  for  that  reason  I  am  not  going  to 
mention  the  names  of  those  who  had  to  do  v.ith  the  act ;  for  the  fur- 
ther reason,  too,  tiiat  I  might  forget  one  or  the  otlr.'r.  and  that  would 
be  unfortunate,  there  were  so  many. 

Now,  then,  to  take  up  the  act  itself.  And  perhaps  it  would  be 
clearer  to  sketch  first  the  underlying  princijDles  and  then  the  general 
scope,  and  then  in  a  general  way  each  article,  and  then  to  get  down 
to  the  details  of  each  article. 

As  I  said  this  morning,  the  underlying,  purpose  was  to  grant  a 
measure  of  justice  to  the  fighting  forces  on  behalf  of  the  whole 
people,  and,  secondly,  in  granting  that  measure  of  justice  to  do  it  in 
a  way  that  would  hearten  the  men  by  freeing  them  of  the  one  great 
dread  that  every  man  has.  Men  who  go  out  to  battle,  even  though 
they  are  not  in  the  slightest  degree  physical  cowards,  may  have  a 
fear  of  what  may  befall  them.  But  that  isn't  the  real  fear  that  con- 
fronts most  of  them.  The  real  terror  for  men  is  that  their  families 
may  suffer  or  become  objects  of  charit3^  That  fear  the  Government 
aims  to  dispel  by  letting  the  men  know  in  advance  that  their  families 
arc  not  going  to  become  objects  of  charity;  that  while,  of  course,  the 
Government  can  not  keep  each  one  of  them  in  the  comfortable  situa- 
tion in  which  m.any  of  j'ou  men  maintain  your  families,  it  can  and 
it  will  at  least  do  this:  It  will  save  them  from  abject  poverty — save 
them  from  having  to  go  out  and  to  ask  others  for  the  necessities  of 
life. 

Now,  some  emphasis  Avas  placed  in  some  of  the  talks  this  morning 
on  compensation  to  the  men.  The  contrast  was  made  between  pen- 
sions and  compensation,  and  the  analogy  of  the  workmen's  compensa- 
tion act  was  refened  to.  All  of  that  is  true.  I  do  not  want,  how- 
ever, to  overemphasize  this  thought  of  compensation.  Rather  I 
should  like  to  have  you  feel  that  all  of  those  who  had  anything  to  do 
with  this  act  have  always  appreciated  that,  whatever  the  Government 
may  do,  it  can  not  give  real  compensation  for  the  services  that  sol- 
diers and  sailors  render,  and  that  their  only  compensation,  their  only 
real  compensation,  is  the  legacy  that  they  are  going  to  transmit  to 
Iheir  children,  the  knowledge  that  they  have  stood  up  and  done  the 
fighting  for  the  rest  of  us.  But  in  some  reasonable  measure  the  rest 
of  the  country  must  give  them  a  compensation,  and  we  have  used  the 


UFE  i:nsl'1{axce,  etc.,  for  soldiers  and  sailors.  5 

■word  compcn.sation  in  this  act  bocuuse  pen -ions,  li^litl y  or  wrongly — 
I  am  not  now  passing  on  the  justice  of  it — l)ut  rightly  or  wrongly,  jjen- 
sions  have  come  to  have  a  secondary  and  none  too  pleasing  connota- 
tion. When  we  come  to  the  compensation  section  I  will  explain  in 
more  detail  why  that  is  so  and  what  we  have  done  to  obviate  that 
sort  of  thing,  despite  groat  likeness  betvrecn  the  pension  laws  and  the 
compensation  section. 

In  framing  the  law  we  started  out  with  the  consideration  of  vvhat 
it  was  in  a  financial  way  that  men  v.ere  losing  and  risking,  and  that 
they  conld  reasonably  ask  the  Government  to  replace  or  compen- 
sate for. 

FAMILY   ALLOV/ANCES. 

Wliatever  replacement  or  compensation  was  to  be  given,  we  felt 
would  liave  to  be  alike  tlirou.ghont  the  conntry,  and  would  have  to  be 
alike  at  least  as  to  all  of  tlie  men  in  the  same  rank,  irrespective  of 
their  actual  personal  financial  condition.  It  is  not  necessary,  of 
course,  that  tlie  provisions  should  he  alike,  but  it  was  the  only  prac- 
tical)le  scheme.  Take,  for  instance,  the  family  alloAVaiice.  The  law 
might  have  been  drafted  in  such  a  way  that  the  amount  of  the  family 
allowance  Avould  va)-y  according  to  the  cost  of  living  in  the  particular 
community  in  which  the  family  resided.  And  in  England  that  is 
done  to  some  extent.  More  is  given  to  people  ayIio  live  in  the  large 
cities,  but  it  was  not  deemed  feasible  for  a  Federal  act.  It  was  felt 
that  even  if  it  had  been  thought  wise  it  would  not  have  be«n  prac- 
ticable, because  it  would  liave  been  impossible  to  get  such  an  act 
through  Congress.  Congressmen  from  the  small  toAvns  would  have 
felt  there  was  an  unjust  discrimination  as  against  their  people,  so  no 
attem]:)t  of  that  kind  VN'as  made.  HovNCver,  those  of  us  who  had  to  do 
with  the  drafting  of  the  act  did  not  lose  sight  of  the  fact  that  there 
is  a  real  difference  in  the  cost  of  living,  and  that  the  provisions  that 
are  made  by  the  Federal  Government  may  be  extravagant  in  a  hamlet 
of  500  people,  and  may  be  very  inadequate  in  a  city  like  "Washington, 
Chicago,  or  Xew  York.    But  we  liad  to  sii'ike  somft  fair  average. 

Then,  again,  wjien  it  came  to  the  amounts,  we  did  not  feel  that  the 
amounts  given  were  large  enough.  Most  of  us  coming  from  large 
cities  thought  tliat  they  were  very  small.  !Most  of  us  having  more 
than  the  average  income  of  men  throughout  the  country  thought  that 
they  were  pretty  small.  But  again  we  had  to  be  reasonable.  We  had 
to  consider  that  whatever  money  is  given  is  paid  by  the  taxpayers  of 
the  country,  and  that  the  man  havnig  an  average  income  would  feel 
that  there  was  an  injustice  to  him  if  pro\"isions  were  made  for  your 
families  that  Avould  give  them  more  than  tlie  average  income,  at  least 
considerably  more  than  the  avei'age  income.  And  so  again  the 
amounts  that  v\ere  determined  upon  were  based  on  v.hat  we  thought 
was  a  fair  and  reasonable  amount  in  view,  first,  of  the  conditions 
throughout  the  Avhole  country,  and  second,  the  average  earnings 
throughout  the  United  States,  the  average  of  families  throughout  the 
United  States. 

Xow,  in  some  States — and  we  hope  it  will  be  done  in  most  of  tlie 
States — there  is  State  legislation,  and  in  at  least  one  citv — and  we 
hope  it  Avill  come  in  other  cities — there  is  such  legislation,  under 
which  the  families  of  men  from  tliat  State  or  that  city  will  receive, 
if  they  need  it,  supplemental  aid.    In  those  communities  in  which  the 


6  LIFE   IXSUEAXCE,   ETC.,  FOR   SOLDIERS   AND   SAILORS. 

cost  of  living  is  above  tlic  average  it  is  only  fair  and  right  that  the 
State  or  the  community  should  stej)  in  and  supplement  what  the  (Gov- 
ernment is  doing,  and  we  felt  that  that  is  a  matter  that  ought  to  be 
left  to  ihe  State  or  the  city. 

Then  there  are  going  to  be  extraordinary  conditions  in  individual 
families.  There  are  going  to  be  men  who  liavc  made  commitments 
for  the  future,  which  because  of  the  loss  of  their  income  they  are 
unable  now  to  meet.  It  is  expected  that  the  bill  that  Secretary 
Baker  i-eferred  to  this  morning,  and  which,  by  ihe  way,  was  never 
part  of  this  bill  but  v\-as  always  a  separate  and  distinct  bill,  will  be 
enacted  at  the  next  Congress,  and  that  bill,  which  is  like  those  called 
in  Europe  moratojitun  measures,  will  grant  relief  to  some  extent  by 
giving  men  who  have  made  definite  commitments,  mortgages,  in- 
terest, insurance  policies,  and  other  things,  at  least  some  leeway  in 
paying  them. 

But,  a])art  from  that,  it  is  hoped  that  men  with  families  in  those 
circumstances  may  be  hclj^ed  through  loans  by  private  organizations, 
patriotic  bodies,  such  as  the  Eed  Cross  and  oi'ganizations  of  a  similar 
character. 

And  so,  too.  there  are  families  who  have  be^n  and  are  now  on  the 
rolls  of  various  philanthropic  organizations.  It  is  not  meant  to  re- 
lieve those  organizations  of  what  they  have  been  doing  except  in  so 
far  as  wliat  the  Governm(»nt  gives  will  iiaturally  relieve  those  organ- 
izations. But  there  will  be  extraordinary  cases,  extraordinary  condi- 
tions in  many  families  demanding  more  than  that  reasonable  average 
mxeasure  of  justice  which  the  people  of  the  United  States  as  a  whole 
ought  to  be  and  are  ready  to  give.  And  in  those  extraordinary  cases 
the  appeal  will  have  to  be  made  in  the  future  as  it  has  b(^en  in  the 
past  either  to  the  State,  county,  or  city  or  to  private  philanthropic 
organiz;iti<ms.  But  for  the  great  mass  of  the  people,  and  for  the 
people  who  will  be  helped  and  satisfied  with  this  average  reasonable 
assistance  from  the  Government,  we  wanted,  and  Congress  wanted,  it 
understood  that  it  is  not  a  gift;  it  is  not  charity  at  all:  it  is  addi- 
tional compensation. 

Coming  now  to  the  subject  of  the  family  allowance,  a  man's  w'ifo 
and  children  are  entitled  to  the  family  allowance  that  the  Govern- 
ment provides  from  tlie  mere  fact  that  the,y  are  his  wife  and  children 
and  there  will  be  no  examination  into  the  question  of  their  financial 
condition.  If  they  want  this  aid  from  the  Government  they  will 
get  it  without  question.  Of  course  it  is  not  supposed,  and  therefore 
Congress  finally  consented  to  let  the  provision  stand  in  the  way  it 
was  drafted — it  is  not  supi)osed  that  the  wife  of  a  millionaire  is 
going  to  make  application  to  the  Government  for  $15  a  month  in 
addition  to  the  compulsory  allotment  that  her  husband  must  make 
to  he)-.  In  fact  it  is  assumed  that  she  is  not  going  to  have  her  hus- 
band give  her  this  allotment  out  of  his  |)ay  to  l)e  deducted  from  his 
pay.  In  other  words,  it  is  not  to  be  supposed  that  those  p'pople  who  are 
in  comfortable  circumstances,  who  have  indei)endent  incomes,  either 
the  wife  or  the  husband,  and  vrho  do  not  require  anything  from  the 
Government,  are  going  to  make  application  for  this  family  allow- 
ance. In  fact,  it  is  expected  that  such  people  Avill  come  in  and  waive 
the  allotment  that  the  husband  Avould  otherwise  be  compelled  to 
make  out  of  his  pay. 


LIFE   INSURANCE,   ETC.,   FOR    SOLDIERS   AND   SAILORS.  7 

COMPULSORY  ALLOTMENT. 

I  have  used  (he  words  *' allotmeitL  "*  and  "allowance.""  L#ei  me 
get  down  to  stUl  i'ui-ther  delail.s  as  to  that.  The  GovcrnnR'nt  i.>, 
ready  to  helj;  the  family  but  the  (iovernment  does  not  intend  to 
absolve  the  married  man  from  his  first  and  primary  obligation — that 
is,  to  contribute  to  the  support  of  his  wife  and  his  children.  This 
law  recognizes  and  enforces  that  obligation.  It  is  the  first  time  that 
the  Federal  (jovernment  as  such  has  recognized  and  enforced-  that 
obligation  by  law.  This  law  sajs  the  first  thing  that  a  soldier  and 
sailor  must  do  is  to  contribute  in  fair  measure  to  the  support  of  hib 
wife  and  children,  and  we  are  going  to  make  him  do  it.  We  are 
going  to  deduct  a  certain  amount  from  his  pay  whether  he  will  or 
not.  We  are  going  to  ask  him,  "Have  you  a  wife  and  children^  '' 
And  he  must  answer  that  question  and  he  must  answer  it  truthfully, 
because  the  law  provides  a  penitentiary  punishment  for  knowingly 
false  answers  to  questions  that  are  put  in  those  printed  blanlis.  He 
must  answer  truthfully  whether  he  has  a  wife,  children,  or  divorced 
wife  who  is  entitled  to  alimony  under  a  decree  of  court,  and  if  he 
has  any  of  these  three  the  (Jo\ernment  will  make  what  is  called  a 
compuisor\'  allotment,  or  what  perhaps  might  l)etter  have  been  called 
a  deduction  fiom  his  pay,  and  this  will  be  made  by  the  (rovernment 
whether  he  wants  it  or  not. 

Now.  I  s^iid  that  the  wealthy  woman  or  the  wealthy  mans  wife 
would  v,aive  that.  We  have  a  provision  in  the  act  by  which  the 
wife  may  waive  on  her  behalf  and  on  behalf  of  her  chihlren;  but 
wo  are  guarding  her  against  her  own  folly  or  her  ultrapatriotism 
or  the  undue  pressure  from  her  husband.  Because  there  are  some 
fellows,  and  they  may  get  into  the  Army  and  Navy,  who  would  be 
glad  to  keep  their  whole  pay  and  let  the  wife  shift  for  herself;  and 
there  arc  wives  who  may  be  s<:>  subdued  by  their  husbands  or  so 
patriotic  or  who  think  they  are  so  patriotic  as  to  let  their  husbands 
do  this.  And  so,  while  a  wife  may  waive,  she  must  make  a  showing 
to  the  bureau  by  proper  atlidavits  that  she  is  able  to  support  herself 
and  her  children  without  this  help  from  the  Government.  Of  course 
if  she  does  that  the  (Tovernment  gladly  permits  it,  because  the  (to\- 
ernment  has  no  intenticui  of  throwing  away  money.  At  the  same 
time  we  do  not  want  to  make  it  dilHcidt  for  those  who  really  ilo  need 
it,  and  1  do  not  mean  only  those  who  would  be  poverty- stricken  v.  itii- 
<uit  it.  but  those,  too,  who  need  it  for  a  reasonable  measure  of  com- 
fort. In  order  to  make  it  possible  for  them  to  get  it  the  Govcrnmeiit 
inakes  no  incn'.iries  as  to  their  actual  de])endency.  If  the  wife  or 
children  ask  for  it,  they  will  get  it  without  question. 

I  say,  without  question.  Tliere  is  a  further  pr<>vision  in  the  a<'t 
that  a  man  may  on  his  own  application  or  otlierwise  for  good  cause 
be  exempted  from  giving  this  allotment;  not  only  that  the  wife  may 
waive  it,  but  he  may  be  exempted,  and  you  will  see  at  a  glance  thnt 
that  is  proper,  for  if  the  husband  is  away  and  the  wife  is  not  con- 
ducting herself  as  she  (jught  to  conduct  herself,  that  is  bad  enough 
in  itself;  it  would  be  much  worse  to  make  the  husband  ptiy  her  and 
thus  enable  her  to  keep  on  in  her  misconduct;  and  it  is  that  sort  of 
a  case  that  is  intended  to  be  guarded  against  by  this  provision  per- 
mitting an  exemption  from  the  allotment. 


8  LIFE   INSURANCE,   ETC.,   FOR    SOLDIERS   AND   SAILORS. 

VOLUNTARY   ALLOTMENT. 

Now,  it  is  only  as  to  the  wife  and  children  and  to  the  divorced 
wife  that  the  Goveriinient  makes  this  dechiction.  whether  the  nian 
wishes  it  or  not.  In  otlier  words,  it  is  only  as  to  them  that  the  allot- 
ment is  compulsory.  Subject  to  any  regulations  that  the  Secretary 
of  War  or  Navy  may  make,  a  man  may  allot  as  much  or  all  of  his 
})ay  as  he  pleases  for  any  other  purposes.  He  can't  allot  it  away  from 
the  wife,  children,  or  divorced  wife  to  the  extent  that  they  are  en- 
titled to  it  under  law ;  but  the  rest  of  it,  or  if  he  has  not  any  of  them, 
tlien  all  of  it.  he  may  allot  as  he  pleases  for  any  pu.r])ose  he  pleases; 
this,  however,  is  subject  to  regulations,  because  the  Secretary  Of  War 
may  well  say  a  man  must  Jiot  deprive  himself  of  all  of  his  spending 
inoney.  Now,  while  he  may  allot,  subject  to  these  regulations,  to  any 
])erson  and  for  any  purpose  that  he  j^leases.  there  are  certain  persons 
to  whom  he  ought  to  allot,  to  whom  he  may  feel  that  he  ought  to 
allot,  and  there  are  certain  persons  to  whom  if  he  does  make  a  proper 
;diotment  the  Government  will  add  an  allowance. 

Now  note  the  distinction.  To  the  wife  and  to  the  childi'en  and  to 
the  divorced  wife  the  allotment  is  compulsory.  He  has  not  any 
option  except,  as  I  said,  the  waiver  and  the  exemption.  To  these 
other  people  there  is  no  compulsion.  If  he  does  not  want  to  support 
his  aged  mother,  vrho  is  dej)endent  upon  him,  the  pressure  of  public 
opinion  vxill  have  to  make  him  support  her — -the  pressure  from  his 
fellows.  The  Governm.ent  will  not,  without  his  consent,  deduct  it 
from  his  pay.  But  as  an  incentive  for  a  man  to  support  or  to  help 
support  his  father,  his  mother,  his  grandchildren,  his  breather,  or  his 
sister,  if  they  need  his  support,  the  Government  says,  "  If  you  will 
conti'ibute  to  their  support  and  they  need  still  more,  we  will  add 
something  to  it."  So  that  while  the  allotment  to  these  people,  these 
relatives,  is  not  compulsory,  it  is  a  condition  precedent  to  the  Gov- 
ernment giving  an  alloAvance.  It  is  compulsory  if  the  man  wants 
them  to  get  the  Government  alloAvance  in  addition  to  what  he  gives 
them,  and  if  he  does  not  want  them  to  get  the  Government  allowance, 
then  he  can  do  as  he  pleases. 

AMOUNT  OF   ALLOTMENT   AND   ALLOWANCE. 

Now,  to  get  down  to  the  figures.  First,  as  to  the  compulsory  allot- 
ment. A  man  must  allot  to  his  Avife  and  children  at  least  $15  a 
month.  That  is  the  minimum.  That  leaves  a  private,  even  in  the 
United  States,  $15  for  himself. 

I  ought  to  have  said  loTig  ago  that  this  allotment  and  allowance 
article  of  the  act  does  not  apply  to  commissioned  officers  and  it  does 
not  apply  to  Army  and  ISavy  Nurse  Corps.  It  applies  only  to  en- 
li.sted  men,  which,  of  course,  as  you  know  includes  the  noncommis- 
sioned officers,  and  in  the  Navy  the  petty  officers,  and  it  also  applies, 
by  express  statement  that  it  shall  so  apply,  to  the  men  in  the  training 
camps.  Of  course,  men  in.  the  training  camps  are  not  officers  and  are 
not  ordinary  enli.sted  men;  but  we  have  defined  Ihem  for  the  purposes 
of  the  act  under  the  v,'ords  "  enlisted  men."  Now,  the  reason  for  the 
flistinction  aiiain  is  obAious.  The  commissioned  officers  get  more 
pay,  and  the  Army  and  Niivy  nurses  are  really  einployees  and  get  the 
same  salary  that  they  get  when  there  is  no  war,  and  therefore  it  was 
believed  that  their  families  were  not  entitled  to  this  extra  help. 


LIFE   INSUKANCJ:,    KIW,   t'Oll   SOLDIi:i!S   AND    SAILORS.  9 

Fnrtliei'inore,  it  \v:ih  not  believed  thai  it  was  essential  to  coinix-]  an 
olHcer  to  do  his  duty  to  his  family.    We  could  leave  that  to  them. 

Now,  to  come  h;\ck  to  the  figmes.  The  minimum  that  a  man  must 
give  to  wife  and  children  is  $15.  But  he  may  be  compelled  to  give 
more  than  that.  That  dei)ends  upon  his  ])ay  and  depends  upon  the 
size  of  his  family  and  the  amount  that  the  (Jovei-nnient  gives,  be- 
cause he  and  the  (lovernment  are  sharing  alike  in  this  thing,  subject 
to  a  minimum  and  a  niaxinuim  that  he  nm^t  give.  It  is  a  r>0-,iO  game. 
Tiie  amount  that  the  (iovernment  gives  is  iixed  in  the  law — $1.")  for  a 
wife.  $:25  for  a  wife  and  one  child,  $:5'2.50  for  a  wife  and  two  cliildren, 
and  $5  additional  for  each  additional  child. 

Now,  that  is  what  ihe  Government  will  give.  The  man  must  give 
the  same,  except  that  the  man  need  not  give  more  than  half  his  pay, 
and  he  can't  give  less  than  $15.  Of  course  it  is  obvious  that  if  lie 
has  a  wife  he  can  not  give  less  than  $1."),  because  the  Government 
gives  $15,  and  $15  is  half  pay  of  the  lowest  paid  man  in  the  Army 
and  Navy.  But  there  is  aiiother  example  that  I  will  give  you  Avhich 
shows  the  need  of  putting  m  that  $15  minimum,  and  that  is  this: 
If  a  man  has  no  wife  and  has  one  child,  that  child  gets  from  the 
(lOvernment  only  $5  a  month.  But  the  father  must  give  $15  any- 
way, so  that  the  child  will  have  $20.  You  will  see  that  there  is 
where  the  minimum  becomes  important.  The  allotment  must  equal 
what  the  (jovernment  gives,  but  it  nnist  be  at  least  $15;  it  need  not 
be  more  than  half  pay;  so  that  if  there  is  one  child  only,  that  child 
g(^ts  $5  from  the  Govei-nment,  but  the  man  nnist  give  that  minimum 
of  $15,  which  nuikes  $20  for  that  child.  On  tlie  other  hand,  if  there 
is  a  wife  and  foiir  chiUlren.  the  (rovernment  would  give  $42,50.  but 
if  the  man  is  a  private  and  is  getting  only  $30  an  his  pay,  all  he 
needs  to  give  is  $15.  Or  if  he  is  in  the  liigher  ranks  of  the  non- 
commissioned officers  and  is  getting  $100  a  month,  he  will  have  to 
give  not  half  his  pay  but  what  the  Government  gives,  $42.50. 

Now.  I  said  $5  for  one  child,  but  supplemented  by  $15  compulsory 
allotment  brings  it  up  to  $20.  Five  dollars  for  one  child.  $12.50  for 
two  children,  and  $20  for  thi'ec  children,  $30  for  four  children.  You 
see  those  steps  are  a  little  bit  steejier  as  we  climb  up.  The  reason 
I'or  that,  when  you  think  a  moment,  is  obvious,  but  it  always  raises 
a  question  if  you  take  it  without  thinking  about  it.  The  man's 
allotment  remains  the  same  or  may  remain  the  same.  Now  the  larger 
the  family,  the  less  each  one  would  got  out  of  that  $15  that  ho 
gives,  and  therefore^  the  more  the  Government  ought  to  add  per 
head  to  do  justice.  You  see.  addintr  $15  to  $5  gives  $20;  if  there  are 
two  children,  vou  add  $12.50  to  that  i^l5.  whicli  gives  $27.50:  if  three 
children,  add  $20.  which  gives  $35:  and  if  four  children,  add  $30, 
which  gives  $45;  so  that  if  vou  count  it  up  you  will  find  that  ns  the 
family  increases  the  per  capita  of  each  child  from  the  allotment  and 
the  allowance  combined  is  just  a  little  less,  and  that  is  on  the  theory 
that  it  costs  a  little  less  per  head  the  larger  the  family. 

So  much,  then,  for  the  allowance  to  those  to  whom  an  allotment 
must  be  made,  unless  it  is  Avaived.  T  ought  to  add  what  is  probably 
obvious,  that  a  Avife  can  not  waive  the  allotment  and  then  come  and 
ask  the  Governuicnt  for  the  allowance.  She  can't  say  to  her  hus- 
band. "  You  can  just  keep  that  whole  $30,  and  I  w'ill  be  "satisfied  with 
what   the   Government   eives.''     She   can't   iret   anvthing   from   the 


10  LIFE   IXSURAXCE,    ETC..   FOE    SOLDIERS   AND   SAILORS. 

Government  unle&s  her  iui.sband  gives  her  an  allotmeiit;  and  if  she 
vraives  the  allotment.,  she  can  not  get  anything  from  the  Government. 

Let  me  suggest  that  as  I  am  going  on  to  something  else  it  might 
be  just  as  'well  to  interrupt  me  if  you  vvant  to  ask  any  question  about 
the  things  I  have  just  talked  about.  You  will  not  disturb  my  train 
of  thouglit. 

A  ^Iember.  In  this  allotm-ent  to  the  Avife  with  no  children  of  $15, 
and  tlie  husband  makes  an  allotment  of  $15.  that  means  the  wife  will 
receiA  e  $30  from  the  Government. 

Judge  Mack.  Yes.  I  do  not  like  to  put  it  that  way.  The  husband 
is  giving  $15  and  the  Government  is  addir^g  another  $15. 

A  ;Me31ber.  That  is  with  no  children. 

Judge  Mack.  Yes.  If  there  is  a  wife  with  one  child  the  Govern- 
ment will  add  $25  to  what  the  husband  gives,  and  so  on  up  the  scale. 

I  ought  to  say  a  word  as  to  the  divorced  wife.  A  divorced  wife 
can  get  the  same  as  a  wife — that  is,  $15  a  month — and  the  husband 
must  make  the  same  allotment  to  her.  Of  course  a  man's  children 
by  a  divorced  vrife  are  his;  there  is  no  difference  between  ch.ddren. 
The  divorced  wife  without  children  can  get  at  the  best  what  a  wife 
can  get,  nam.elj-,  $15  a  month  from  the  Government  and  $15  from 
the  man.  But  there  are  certain  limitations  to  what  she  can  get.  In 
the  first  place  she  can  not  get  more,  counting  the  allotment  that  he 
must  make  and  the  allowance  together,  than  the  alimony  which  the 
court  decree  provides.  Now,  suppose  the  court  has  said  that  the 
husband  shall  paj^  to  her  $20  a  month  alimony.  That  $20  a  month 
would  be  made  up  first  out  of  the  $15  that  the  husband  must  himself 
allot  and  then  $5  that  the  Government  would  add.  On  the  other 
hand,  if  the  divorce  decree  said  $30  a  month,  then  she  would  get  $15 
from  the  man  and  $15  from  the  Government. 

But  the  divorced  wife  is  subordinated  to  the  present  wife  and  the 
children,  and  if  the  entire  amount  that  the  husband  must  give  is 
needed  by  them,  then  the  divorced  wife  can  not  get  anything  from 
him ;  she  vrould  still  get  a  Government  allowance,  subject,  however,  to 
their  prior  rights.  She  comes  next  to  them,  ahead  of  those  others 
that  I  am  going  to  talk  about,  but  she  does  not  come  equal  to  them 
or  aliead  of  them.  Let  me  put  that  in  an  example.  Take  a  man  mak- 
ing $yO  a  month.  Suppose  he  has  got  a  wife  and  three  children  and 
a  divorced  wife,  and  the  divorced  vrife  is  entitled  to  $30  a  month  ali- 
money.  AVell,  now,  the  wife  and  three  children  would  be  entitled  to 
$37.50  from  the  Government.  They  are  entitled  to  the  same  thing 
from  the  husband.  I  said  he  was  getting  $90  a  month.  He  woidd 
be  compelled  to  give  the  same  as  the  Government  gives,  but  not  moie 
than  half  his  pay.  So  that  she  would  be  entitled  from  him  to  $37.50 
a  month,  the  same  as  the  Government  gives.  But  as  half  his  pay  is 
$45,  he  can  be  compelled  to  give  the  balance,  $7.50,  to  his  divorced 
wife.  That  takes  up  half  his  pay,  and  that  is  the  extent  that  he  can 
be  compelled  to  give. 

Now,  then,  the  Government  has  given  $37.50  to  the  wife  and  the 
children;  but  the  Government  is  ready  to  give  when  necessary  up 
to  $00;  this,  however,  is  the  maximum  that  the  Government  gives 
to  all  put  together.  Now,  as  it  has  given  only  $37.50  to  the  wife  and 
children  there  is  still  $12.50  left  that  can  be  gotten  from  the  Govern- 
ment by  the  divorced  wife.  She  would  thus  have  $7.50  from  the 
man  and  $12.50  from  the  Government,  making  $20  a  month;  she 


UFE   INSUIt\XCE,   ETC.,   FOR   SOLDIERS   AND   SAILORS.  11 

could  not  compel  paymont  of  (ho  entire  i^oO  that  the  alimony'  decree 
iravv^  iier.  That  is  simply  to  show  how  the  tiling  woiks  out.  ()i 
eoinse  if  a  man  is  a  private  with  ^'40  pay,  his  wife  and  children 
would  get  the  entire  $15  that  he  would  have  to  allot;  they  woidd 
get  $37.50  from  the  Government,  the  wife  and  three  childi'en;  and 
there  would  still  be  $r2.50  Government  allowance  remaining:  that 
$1j!.5()  would  go  to  the  divorced  wife  on  account  of  her  alimony. 

Col.  Loan.  ^lay  I  ask  you  to  emphasize  the  point  made  there  that 
not  more  than  $50  will  be  paid  by  the  Government  on  account  of  any 
enlisted  man  ( 

Judge  Mack.  I  will  emphasize  it  agaiji  when  I  come  down  to  the 
next  head.  Now,  coming  to  other  relatives  Avho  may  get  an  allow- 
ance  

A  Membp:r.  I  would  like  to  ask  a  question  on  a  dixorce  matter. 
Take  a  case  where  a  man  is  divorced  and  she  does  not  get  alim(m3'. 

Judge  Mack.  She  doesn't  get  anything. 

A  IVIembkr.  And  she  has  a  child. 

Judge  Mack.  The  child  is  the  same  as  any  other  child. 

A  Mkmbek.  In  that  same  case,  suppose  you  have  a  divorced  wife 
and  the  wife  has  three  children;  does  the  Government  supply  any 
money  'i 

Judge  Mack.  You  mean,  just  take  the  wife  with  the  three  chil- 
dren? The  man's  pay  is  $90.  The  Government  gives  $37.50  to  the 
wife  and  the  three  children;  the  man  must  give  the  same. 

A  Me:mher.  Then  she  gt^ts  twice  as  much. 

Judge  Mack.  She  would  have  an  income  of  $75  a  month. 

A  Member.  The  man  gives  the  same  as  the  Government^ 

Judge  Mack.  The  nuui  gives  the  same  as  the  Government  up  to 
the  maxinuun.  except  he  can  not  give  less  than  $15,  no  matter  what 
the  Government  gives.  Take  that  case  of  the  one  child,  where  the 
Government  gives  only  $5;  he  can  not  be  compelled  to  give  more 
than  half  of  his  pay,  but  he  can  be  compelled  to  give  up  to  half  if 
necessary;  but  he  n'lust  give  $15.  If  the  Government  ^ives  $37.50, 
all  he  need  to  do  is  the  same ;  he  need  not  give  $45,  half  of  his  pay, 
if  the  (lovernment  gives  only  $37.50. 

A  Member.  If  his  pay  is  $80?      ^  ,      .  ^  * 

Judwe  Mac  k.  Slill  $37.50.     If  $70,  only  $35,  and  the  Government 
will  gfve  $37.50;  and  if  he  were  a  private  he  would  give  only  $15, 
and  the  Government  would  still  give  $37.50  to  the  wife  and  three 
.children. 

A  Me.mber.  Suppose  the  soldier  has  a  Avaiver? 

Judge  Mack.  The  children  alone  can  not  waive — there  is  no  provi- 
sion for  waiver  by  these  minors — but  their  mother  can  waive  for  her- 
self and  for  them,  and  under  proper  circumstances  exemption  can 
be  granted. 

A  Member.  In  the  case  just  stated,  if  the  man  were  a  private,  how- 
much  would  the  Government  give  over  the  $37.50  to  the  divoned 
wife — U])  to  the  $50 i* 

Judge  Mack.  Yes:  the  Govermnent  is  ready  to  give,  if  ne<•o^.sary, 
within  the  terms  stated  by  the  law,  up  to  $50.  >(0w.  the  law  says 
that  to  a  wife  and  three  children  $37.50  goes  from  the  Government ;  to 
a  di\  orced  wife,  ju.^t  like  any  wife,  $15.  That  brings  it  up  to  $5-2..50. 
But  the  Governnient  says  that  the  maxinuun  is  $50.  Inasnuich  as  the 
wife  and  children  come  first,  the  $ii.50  loss  must  be  sutt'ered  by  the 


12  LIIE    INSURANCE,   ETC.,   FOR    SOLDIERS   AND    SAILOES. 

divorced  wife.  Tlierofore  the  divorced  wife  gets  $12.50  instead  of 
$15.    Does  that  make  the  situation  plain? 

A  MmiHER.  Yes,  sir. 

Anotlier  Member.  A  man  getting  $70  a  month  can  allot  more  than 
half?    He  can  make  an  allotment  of  $50? 

Judge  Mack.  He  c*an  make  any  allotment  he  pleases,  subject  only 
to  the  Army  regulations. 

A  MEJinER.  %ly  question  is  this,  then,  whether  a  man  who  gets  $70 
a  month,  and  has  a  divorced  wife  and  a  wife,  could  defeat  payments 
to  the  divorced  wife  by  allotting  $50  to  the  present  wife? 

Judge  Mack.  No;  ithat  is  answered  by  what  I  said;  that  while  a 
man  can  allot  any  of  his  pay  he  can  not  allot  it  until  after  the  com- 
pulsory deduiCtion  is  made.  Now,  the  compulsory  deduction  would 
be  for  v>ife  and  children  and  divorced  Avife.  and  therefore  those  must 
come  first  and  come  out  of  his  half  pay  alone.  His  other  half  pay  is 
perfectly'  free.  ISow,  a  man  with  $70  pay,  having  a  wife  and  three 
children  and  a  divoi-ced  Avife,  can  not  be  compelled  to  give  anything 
to  the  divorced  v\ife  because  the  $37.50  which  the  Government  gives 
the  Avife  and  three  children  Avould  be  supplem.ented  by  all  that  he  can 
be  compelled  to  give — half  his  pay ;  that  is,  $85 :  his  Avife  and  three 
children  would  be  entitled  to  that  entire  amount ;  all  the  divorced  Avife 
could  get  Avould  be  the  balance  betAveen  $50,  the  Government  maxi- 
mum, and  the  $37.50  alloAvance  Avliich  the  Avife  and  three  children  get. 

A  Mem  DEE.  If  a  man  Avants  to  gi^e  more  than  the  compulsory  allot- 
ment does  the  Government  prevent  him  ? 

Judge  Mack.  No;  a  man  can  give  as  much  as  lie  pleases  but  the 
amount  Avhich  the  GoA'ernment  adds  is  definitely  fixed  for  each  case. 

A  Memhek.  In  case  of  a  fine,  Avhat  happens?  Suppose  a  soldier  is 
fined.     [Laughter.] 

Judge  Mack.  We  are  going  to  try  to  arrange  for  that  by  regulation. 
I  don't  knoAv  Avhether  the  interdepartmental  committee  has  taken  it 
up  or  not. 

Col.  Lord.  We  have  discussed  it. 

Judge  Mack.  What  avc  are  going  to  try  to  do  is  to  have  the  Army 
ar.fl^Navy  Regulations  ])rovide  that  it  Avill  come  out  of  the  other  half 
of  the  felloAv's  pay.     [Laughter.] 

A  Me.aiher.  In  the  Navy  there  are  certain  conditions  under  Avhich 
a  man's  pay  stops,  Avhere  illness  has  been  contracted  through  some 
fault  of  his  own,  and  he  may  go  to  a  hospital  for  some  period  of 
time,  and  during  that  period  he  loses  all  pay.  Wliat  Avould  be  the 
result  under  those  conditions? 

Col.  Lord.  May  I  ansAver  that?    That  can  be  covered  by  regulation. 

A  ]Mf:MBER.  Pardon  me.  in  the  NaAy  it  is  in  the  law. 

Judge  Mack.  HaA'e  you  taken  that  up  for  discussion? 

A  JVIembek.  It  Avas  passed  in  the  Navy  tAvo  years  ago. 

Col.  Lord.  They  haA'^e  the  same  hnv  in  the  Army. 

Judge  Mack.  Have  Ave  the  judge  advocate's  representative  here? 
He  can  ansAvcr  that  question. 

A  Member.  INIa}'  I  ask  that  a  memorandum  be  made  of  that? 

Col.  Lord.  I  Avill  make  a  note  of  that. 

A  Me:mbk,r.  Suppose  the  court  allows  a  divorced  Avife  a  certain 
amount  and  the  Government  allotment  does  not  come  up  to  that 
amount,  does  the  man  have  to  make  u.p  the  rest  from  his  OAvn  pay? 


LIFE   INSURANCE,   ETC.,    FOR   SOLDIERS  AND   SAILORS.  13 

Judge  Mack.  What  do  you  mean?  As  a  mutter  of  law,  or 
morals,  or  Avliat?  A  mairs  pay  from  the  United  States  Govei-nment 
can  not  be  taken  by  any  court.  Does  that  answer  yoiir  question^  It 
is  only  the  United  States  (lovernment  itself  tliat  can  permit  or  direct 
that.  '  Now,  a  man's  ptiy  can  not  be  attached.  No  creditor,  whether 
it  is  a  divorced  wife  or"anyl>ody  else,  can  attach  it,  and  that  is  why 
we  made  these  provisions  as  to  compulsory  allotment. 

A  Mkmbkk.  Judge,  if  a  notation  is  made  on  the  pay  roll,  $20  or 
less,  the  paymaster  will  do  some  attaching. 

Anotiieu  JVlEMiiKR.  In  the  Navy,  if  men  arc  sick  as  a  result  of  their 
own  misconduct,  they  lose  their  pay  just  as  if  absent  Avithont  leave. 
In  the  case  of  illness  there  is  absolutely  a  law  on  the  subject  which 
takes  all  th<Mr  ])ay,  and  they  must  serve  additional  time  when  they 
come  out  of  the  hospital. 

Jndgc  Mack.  If  men  get  no  pay  and  are  entitled  to  no  pay  from 
the  (Government,  their  families  get  no  allotment,  because  the^  allot- 
ment is  dependent  on  the  pay.  If  the  man  so  conducts  himself  that 
the  (iovermnent  ov;es  him  no  obligation,  he  has  absolved  the  Govern- 
ment from  this  obligation  to  the  family  as  well.  That  is  hard,  but 
that  is  life.  Families  suffer  through  the  misconduct  of  the  man.  They 
suiier  when  a  man  is  sent  to  the  penitentiary,  but  they  have  to  support 
themselves,  and  if  the  man  misbehaves  himself  and  in  that  way  is 
going  to  lose  liis  pay  the  family  will  not  receive  the  compulsory  allot- 
ment. He  makes  them  objects  of  charity,  and  charity  will  take  care 
of  them,  but  they  are  no  longer  the  charges  of  the  Government  under 
this  kind  of  a  law,  except  as  to  the  allowance. 

Now,  on  the  other  hand,  if  he  has  done  something  for  which  he  is 
merely  fined,  the  court-martial  can  not  deprive  his  family  of  its  com- 
pulsory allotment;  he  himself  will  sufier  longer  through  that  fine 
and  his  family  not  suffer;  the  fine  comes  out  of  his  half  of  the  Y>i\y. 
As  long  as  the  law  itself  does  not  deprive  him  of  that  pay,  the  com- 
pulsory allotment  continues. 

A  Member.  Is  that  the  answer  to  that  (luestion,  or  will  it  be  talcen 
up  in  discussion? 

Judge  "Mack.  No;  if  the  law  does  not  take  away  the  pay,  his  family 
is  entitled  to  allotment  of  pay. 

A  ME.Mr.EK.  That  is  a  temporary  condition. 

Judge  ]M.\rK.  During  the  temporary  condition  tiie  temporary  sus- 
pension applies. 

A  Memp-eh.  That  is  the  lav,-  on  (hat  subject,  is  it? 

Judge  ]SIack.  Yes. 

A  Membeil  I  should  like  to  take  it  up  in  conference  and  discuss 
it  again. 

Another  Memher.  The  family  allov^auce  is  al)>olu(ely  dependent 
(,n  Iho  allotment? 

Judge  Ma(  K.  No;  there  is  a  ])rovision  that  exemption  may  be 
granted  from  the  allotment,  but  that  provision  was  not  intended  to 
apply  to  cases  of  this  kind.  I  gave  you  the  sort  of  a  case  to  which  it 
was  intended  to  apply. 

A  Member.  l"'^nfortunately,  you  can  not  explain,  in  detail  just  to 
what  that  applies,  but  I  think  v,hen  Maj.  Leonard  comes  bacjj:  he 
may  explain.    It  hardly  seems  fair. 


li  LIFE    IKSUBANCE;   ETC.,   FOE    SOLDIEBS  AXD   SAILORS. 

Judge  Mack.  There  is  this  provision  in  the  laAv,  that  exemption 
can  be  given  by  reguhitions. 

A  Member.  It  hardly  appears  fair  for  the  dependents. 

Judge  Mack.  "V^'Jiat  I  have  been  saying  does  not  appl}'  to  the 
alloAvance  but  only  to  the  allotment;  but  if  the  man  is  discharged  for 
misconduct  he  necessarily  injures  his  family.  So,  too,  if  he  becomes 
disabled  through  his  willful  misconduct  his  family  as  Avell  as  himself 
are  cut  out  of  the  comx)ensation  provisions. 

A  Mejibek.  a  iriau  is  absent  without  leave.  Under  certain  con- 
ditions he  is  treated  as  a  deserter  and  his  pay  is  then  withheld 
iintil  the  question  is  determined  whether  he  is  or  is  not  a  deserter. 
Does  the  family  allowance  go  on  ? 

Judge  Mack.  Until  it  is  decided,  the  family  allowance  goes  on,  if 
he  is  in  the  service.     Has  he  deserted? 

A  Memuer.  Xo:  lie  has  come  back,  but  the  question  is  not  decided. 
He  is  taken  from  the  pay  roll.     II ow'  can  they  take  out  the  allotment? 

Col.  LoiiD.  Take  it  out  Avhen  they  get  a.  settlement.  I  do  not  under- 
stand that  wc  are  going  to  vrnit  until  we  hear  from  the  field  or  the 
ships.  We  are  going  to  plan  to  pay  in  the  Army  as  soon  as  the 
money  is  due.     \Ve  will  hear  from  the  field  afterwards. 

A  Membee.  I  would  like  to  knovv  about  the  family  allowance.  I 
have  gained  tiie  idea  thiit  the  family  allovrance  was  something  given 
by  the  Government  depending  not  at  all  on  something  else.  It  is  the 
Government's  busiuess  to  collect  the  allotment.  If  they  fail  to  do  it 
that  ouglit  not  to  affect  his  alloAvance.  If  a  man  does  not  get  any 
pay  the  Government  can't  take  anything  from  him.  In  the  mean- 
while the  man  is  in  the  service  until  he  is  discliarged. 

Judge  Mack.  Possibly  I  do  not  quite  understand  you  when  you 
say  "family  allowance."  Do  you  include  in  the  words  "family 
allowance"  that  part  which  lie  himself  allots  or  do  you  mean  only 
the  additional  amount? 

A  MEMni-j:.  I  have  made  in  my  own  mind  this  distinction :  That 
having  found  out  that  a  man  has  a  family  the  Government  contrib- 
ut(  s  to  the  support  of  tlie  famil}'  and  tlien  they  ai'e  going  to  make  the 
man  coijtribiite  as  a  secondary  proposition. 

Judge  Mack.  The  Government  payment  of  allowance  is  condi- 
tioned upon  the  making  of  the  allotment.  That  is  the  express  state- 
ment of  the  law.  Now,  the  making  of  that  allotment  may  be  waived ; 
may  be  exem]ited  by  the  (Jovernment.  But  unless  the  Government 
exempts  him  fi'om  ['^."^'ii^g  that  allotment  the  allotment  must  be  made 
if  he  gets  pay  in  order  to  get  the  allowance. 

A  Me^mher.  Yes;  but  if  the  allowance  is  conditional  upon  the  allot- 
jnent,  the  allotment  itself  being  compulsory,  it  follows  that  the  allow- 
ance must  be  compulsory. 

Judge  IVIack.  The  allotment  is  compulsory  if  a  man  is  earning  it; 
if  a  man  has  no  pay,  there  can  be  no  allotment. 

A  Mkmp.er,  But  he  is  in  the  service  just  the  same.  He  is  serving 
his  country  for  hire. 

Judge  Mack.  In  the  case  you  put  he  is  serving  his  country,  is  he? 

A  Member.  So  long  as  he  is  in  the  service  he  theoretically  is. 

Judge  Mack.  You  are  assuming  the  case  that  a  man  is  in  the  serv- 
ice, but  nevertheless  his  pay  is  suspended. 


LIFE   INSURANCE,   ETC.,   FOE   SOLDIERS   AND   SAILOKS.  15 

A  Member.  Yes;  a  man  who  is  absoiit  v.ithout  leave  and  is  tech- 
nically a  deserter  and  is  entitled  to  no  pay  for  the  time  l)eint^.  Later 
it  may  be  decided  that  lie  really  is  not  a  deserter,  but  mcanwiiiie  his 
pay  is  withheld.  Now,  he  is  subject  to  orders.  It  may  have  been 
a  mistake.  Jle  is  tlu^re  and  still  in  the  service  and  continues  to  bo 
un(i]  discharged. 

Judge  Mack.  XTnder  this  law,  unless  the  pay  wns  earned,  that 
shaie  which  he  must  cojnpulsorily  allot  to  his  family  would  not  go 
to  the  family.  But  if  he  is  in  the  service,  and  (hough  without  pay 
temporarily  while  the  allotuient  is  suspended,  the  family  allowance 
will  go  on.  That  should  be  sim])ly  a  temporary  exemption,  and  when 
it  is  linally  determined  (hat  the  man  was  entitled  to  his  pay  that 
share  of  it  that  ought  to  be  paid  (o  the  family  will  l)e  talcen  out  as 
baciv  i)ay,  and  in  the  meantiuie  they  will  ha^e  to  shift  the  best  they 
can  because  of  what  the  num  has  done. 

A  Memijek.  Following  out  that  same  (luestion,  there  would  be  two 
items  in  the  payment  to  the  beneiiciary,  one  the  amount  collected 
from  the  man,  if  anything,  and  the  other  the  amount  contributed  by 
the  (!overnn)ent. 

Judge  ISIack.  Yes. 

A  Member.  In  the  first  sentence  of  section  20,5  it  says,  "That 
family  allowances  for  memlx?rs  of  class  A  shall  be  paid  only  if  and 
while  a  compulsory  allotment  is  made  to  a  member  or  members  of 
such  class.'' 

Judge  Mack.  Yes. 

A  IVfEMBER.  It  does  not  say,  "made  and  paid";  it  sa.ys  that  the 
allotment  is  made.  AVouldn't  that  establish  the  right  to  the  allow- 
ance ? 

Judge  Mack.  Yes;  it  would. 

A  Member.  And  c^en  if  the  allowance  were  paid  without  having 
oollecfed  the  allotment  from  the  man,  if  there  is  no  allotment  to  col- 
lect, the  allowance  would  have  to  be  made  just  the  same? 

Judge  Mack,  While  the  language  could  be  clearer,  the  word 
"made,"'  as  here  used,  is  ec^uivalent  to  "not  v.aived  or  exempted." 

A  ^IK^JBKK.  If  a  liiau  has  a  family  thai  is  only  partly  dependent 
on  him,  does  the  Ciovci-nment  gi\  e  him  the  same  conditions  as  the  man 
who  has  a  family  entirely  dependent? 

Judge  Mack.  Yes.  1  said  that  a  muhimillionaire's  wife  can  apply 
for  this  $15  a  month  from  the  (Joverumcnt,  and  (he  (}o^'ernment  will 
pay  it,  and  have  no  fmther  questions  if  she  wants  to  anpl\'  for  It.  It 
is  not  cxjiected  that  they  are  going  to  do  that. 

A  Member.  These  cases  that  have  been  mentioned  are  with  refer- 
ence to  men  that  have  been  a<'liug  in  such  a  way  that  they  are  not  en- 
titled to  any  pay.  Take  tlie  case  where  a  man  is  paid  for  W  days  in  a 
month  that  has  -U  days.  I  supjiose  the  allotment  would  be  payable 
under  those  circumstances. 

Col.  Lord.  Only  30  days  in  a  pay  month. 

A  Me:mber.  Well,  take  2i>  tlays;  then,  if  he  happened  to  be  sick  one 
day  his  family  would  go  without  any  allowance:  is  that  the  intcj-]ire- 
tation  ? 

Judge  ^[v<  K.  No;  they  would  not.  I  do  not  knov,-  whether  by  law 
pay  is  susix^nded  in  that  case;  if  it  is,  then  allotment  but  not  allow- 
ance is  also  suspended. 


16  LIFE    INSURANCE^   ETC.^   FOR   SOLDIEKS   AKD    SAILOBS. 

xV  Me:mber.  One  more  question:  Tukr  the  case  of  a  man  Avitli  a 
wife  and  one  child.    She  would  receive  $25? 

Judge  Mack.  Yes. 

A  Member.  And  no  matter  ^^hat  the  man^s  pay  is,  if  his  allotment 
is  added  to  that  $25  she  gets  pay  from  the  husband  and  pay  from  the 
GoN'ei-nment — two  sources  ? 

Judge  Mack.  Yes. 

A  Member.  And  if  the  man  is  a  private  the  husband  would  give 
her  $15,  because  that  would  be  half  of  his  pay? 

Judge  Mack.  You  see,  pa}'^  is  defined  in  the  act  as  pay  for  service 
in  the  United  States,  according  to  his  rank  and  according  to  the 
period  of  his  service;  allowances  are  cut  out :  the  $3  extra  for  foreign 
service,  etc.,  in  determining  this  half  pay.  It  is  the  pay  that  a  man 
gets  v\hile  serving  in  the  xVrmy  in  the  United  States.  You  will  find 
that  definition  in  section  22,  and  I  will  come  back  to  some  of  these 
ether  definitions  in  a  few  minutes — ^"  Pay  for  services  in  the  United 
States,  excluding  all  allowances." 

A  Member.  Under  ,vour  definition  of  enlisted  men  I  see  where  it 
says  "  enrolled,  drafted,  and  otherwise."  I  will  ask  you  what  is 
mean^  by  enrolled? 

Judge  Mack.  That  is  a  Navy  term.    The  Maw  put  thnt  in. 

A  ItlEMBER.  That  would  not  include  field  clerks? 

Judge  I^Iack.  It  Avas  thougiit  to  refer  onl}'^  to  certain  men  in  the 
Navy."^  But  I  am  advised  h-y  The  Judge  Advocate  (xcneral  of  the 
Arniy  that  field  clerks,  and  field  clerks  Quartermaster  Corps,  are 
enrolled  in  the  Army.  They  ai'e  therefore  within  the  act  under  the 
definition  of  enlisted  men, 

"VVe  come  next  to  other  relatives,  for  whom,  as  I  said,  an  allotment  is 
not  compulsory.  But  it  is  a  condition  precedent  to  getting  the  allow- 
ance, unless  an  exemption  from  making  the  allotment  is  granted.  Now, 
the  situation  as  to  this  is  totally  different  from,  that  as  to  wife  and 
child.  The  millionaire  mother,  father,  brother,  or  sister  could  not  get 
anything  from  the  Government,  because  the  Government  allowance  to 
these  other  relatives  is  subject  to  several  conditions,  and,  first,  that 
they  must  be  actually  dependent,  in  whole  or  in  part,  upon  the  man.  If 
they  are  not  dependent,  they  can  not  get  anything,  no  matter  whether 
he  makes  them  an  allotment  or  not.  And,  second,  they  can  not  get 
from  this  allotment  and  the  allowance  combined  more  than  the  man 
himself  has  been  habitually  contributing  during  the  period  of  de- 
pendenc3^  but  not  exceeding  the  past  year.  In  other  words — but 
let  me  give  3^ou  an  example.  Tlic  amount  of  the  Government  allow- 
ance is  $10  to  one  parent,  $20  to  two  parents,  and  $5  additional  to 
each  additional  parent— because  a  man  can  have  half  a  dozen  parents 
as  the  word  "parent"  is  defined  by  this  act — $5  to  ench  grandchild, 
brother,  or  sister.  Now,  as  I  said,  none  of  those  payments  are  made 
unless  the  individual  is  dependent  in  whole  or  in  part  upon  the  man, 
and,  second,  none  of  those  pajnnents  are  made  unless  the  allotment 
that  the  m.an  himself  must  make,  if  he  Avants  anything  to  be  paid 
by  the  GoA-ernment,  is  less  than  what  he  has  been  habitually  paying 
to  them. 

How  much  must  the  man  allot  in  order  to  get  this  allowance? 
"Well,  that  depends.     If  he  is  giving  a  compulsory  allotment  to  wife, 


UFE   INSURANCE,   ETC.,   FOR    SOLDIERS   AND   SAILORS.  17 

chilclicn,  or  widowed  mothor,  tlion,  in  order  to  fret  an  allovrance  for 
these  other  lelatives  he  must  allot  one-seventh  of  his  pay,  but  not  le.ss 
than  $5.  A  man  niakinj^  $T0  a  month  woukl  have  to  allot  $10.  Any- 
body getting  less  than  that,  in  proportion.  Now,  then,  suppose  he  is  a 
jM'ivate.  lie  lias  to  allot  $1;")  a  month  if  he  is  allotting  to  a  wife,  chil- 
dren, or  divorced  wife.  If  he  is  not  allotting  to  them,  then  he  must 
make  the  same  allotment  to  these  parents,  brothers,  and  sisters  that  he 
would  make  to  his  wife  or  children.  In  other  words,  he  must  give  up 
at  least  $15  a  month  under  all  circumstances  before  the  Government 
will  do  a  thing  for  his  wife  and  children,  and  if  he  is  not  doing  this 
then  he  must  do  the  same  thing  for  his  parents  before  the  Govern- 
ment will  step  in.  If  he  is  gi\ing  money  to  the  first  class,  then  he 
must  give  something  to  the  second  class,  unless  the  Government 
waives  the  additionafamount,  and  this  sum  must  be  at  least  $5,  and  it 
must  be  one-seventh  of  his  pnj. 

Now.  to  come  to  an  example:  A  private  who  hasn't  a  wife  or  child 
or  divorced  wife  has  a  father  and  a  mother.  They  are  both  de- 
pendent upon  him.  He  has  been  their  support.  Assume  he  has  been 
giving  them  $15  a  month  to  live  on.  Now,  let  us  see  Avhat  the  situ- 
ation  is.  He  has  no  wife,  child,  or  divorced  wife.  He  is  getting  $30 
a  month.  He  must  give  half  his  pay.  He  must  give  $15  at  least, 
and  as  that  is  half  his  pay  it  is  both  maximum  and  minimum.  Now, 
he  must  give  them  $15.  Two  parents  can  get  $20  from  the  Gov- 
ernment; so  that  they  miglit  in  proper  case  get  $20  from  the  Gov- 
ernment and  $15  from  him.  That  would  be  $35.  But  I  said  that 
he  had  been  leaving  tliem  only  $15  a  month  before  he  went  into 
the  Army.  Therefore  they  can't  get  anything  from  the  Government. 
His  $15  that  he  gives  theni  is  all  that  he  gave  them  before,  and  there- 
fore it  is  all  that  thoy  are  entitled  to  under  the  law. 

Now,  suppose,  on  the  other  hand,  that  he  has  a  wife  and  chil- 
dren or  a  wife.  He  gives  that  v>ife  $15.  Now,  he  wants  his  father 
and  mother  to  get  somcth.ing.  He  must  give  them  another  $5.  But 
he  has  been  contributing  $J5  to  them  before  the  war.  The  Govern- 
ment will  then  add  $10  so  that  they  will  still  get  the  $15.  If  he  had 
been  contributing  $25  or  more  to  them  before  the  war  the  Govern- 
ment would  have  been  ready  to  add  $20  to  his  $5,  making  a  total  of 
$25.     Is  the  example  clear  ^ 

A  Member.  I  suppose  if  it  takes  ail  that  a  man  makes  for  his  allot- 
ment to  his  parents  the  Government  will  go  50-50. 

Judge  Mack.  Put  your  example. 

A  Memher.  For  instance  if  you  have  a  widowed  mother  and  you 
allot  her  $30,  will  the  Government  go  50-50? 

Judge  Mack.  No;  I  have  explained  to  3^ou,  tried  to  explain,  these 
limitations.  If  there  is  one  parent  the  Government  will  allow  a 
maximum  of  $10:  for  two  parents  the  Government  will  allow  a  max- 
imum of  $20.  Now,  that  is  all  the  Government  will  allow  under  any 
circumstances,  no  matter  what  the  man  gives.  The  Government  will 
not  allow  more. 

Now,  to  emphasize  again  one  more  point.  Col.  Lord  asked  me  to 
emphasize  the  point  that  the  Government  will  add  under  no  circum- 
stances more  than  $50.    It  does  not  make  any  difference  what  the  man 

19808°— 17 2 


18  OFE   IIS'SUCAXCR^   KTC,   FOB    SOLDIERS    AND   SAILOBS. 

allots.  The  \a  ife  and  the  cliildren  come  first,  the  divorced  wife  next, 
and  then  come  these  parents,  brotliers,  and  sisters  in  sharing  in  that 
possible  $50  that  the  Government  gives. 

A  IviEiiBEE.  What  form  of  proof  is  i^eqiiired  of  the  amount  that 
has  been  pai*!  by  the  man  to  his  famil}^? 

Judge  Mack.  That  is  a  matter  that  will  be  prescribed  i)y  regula- 
tions, but  until  the  bureau  can  investigate  further  it  is  apt  to  take  tlio 
statement  of  the  man  arid  his  mother  as  to  what  has  been  actually 
paiii.  because  a  man  is  going  to  the  penitentiary  if  he  knowingly 
makes  a  wrong  statement. 

Col.  Lord.  The  Army  had  the  same  proposition  to  meet  in  connec- 
tion witli  the  $0,000,000  that  was  distributed  in  connection  with  the 
Mexican  mobilization,  and  that  was  a  troublesome  problem  that  we 
liad  to  solve,  to  establish  definitely  and  with  certainty  how  much 
had  been  customarily  contributed  by  the  soldier  toward  the  sup- 
port of  the  designated  beneficiary.    But  v*  e  solved  it. 

Judge  Mack.  It  is  a  difficult  problem,  and  we  have  endeavored 
in  this  act  to  get  away  as  far  as  we  could  from  the  necessity  of  in- 
vestigating questions  of  dependency.  That  Vvas  one  of  the  reasons 
why  we  said,  Give  the  wife  and  children,  if  they  ask  for  it,  witliout 
going  into  the  question  of  whether  they  really  need  it  or  not,  be- 
cause as  was  said  in  answer  to  argiunents  of  Congressmen  and  Sena- 
tors, it  will  cost  the  Go\ernnient  more  to  invcotigate  whetlier  these 
wives  and  children  are  jeally  depcjident  than  the  amount  that  would 
be  saved  from  those  who  did  not  need  it  and  nevertheless  asked  for  it. 

A  JME:MBFJi.  In  the  case  of  petty  officers,  many  of  them  leave  an 
allotment  of  $75  for  their  families.  Maybe  they  earn  $90.  Now,  we 
say  that  they  are  compelled  to  leave  one-half  of  their  pay.  YVe  Avill 
say  that  it  will  be  $50  in  the  case  of  $100  pay.  and  that  he  had  a 
wife  with  no  cliildreri.  Would  tiic  Government  still  giAe  $15  in 
addition  to  the  $50?     The  $50  would  not  be  compulsory. 

Judge  Mack.  It  would  not  be  $50  compulsorily.  Let  me  try  to 
put  it  iigain.  A  man  mu>t  allot  only  the  same  amount  that  the 
Government  itself  is  paying.  But  even  that  is  subject  to  tvco  limita- 
tion:-: that  he  must  allot  $15  a  month  and  that  he  need  not  allot 
more  than  half  his  pay.  Suppose  that  man  has  a  wife  and  no  chil- 
dren. How  much  is  the  Government  going  to  give  her?  $15  a 
jnonth.  So,  then,  the  man  must  allot  the  same  amount  chat  the 
Government  gives,  that  is  $15,  isn't  it?  That  is  all  that  the  man 
must  allot,  because  it  is  also  the  minimum  that  he  can  allot.  But 
the  maximum  half  pay  is  only  if  the  Government  were  to  give  up 
to  that. 

A  Me3Ibek.  But  wjiat  I  meant,  the  point  is  this,  that  he  has  been 
leaving  $70.  but  irrespective  of  the  amount  tluit  he  allots,  the  fact 
that  he  has  a  wife,  the  Government  allots,  then,  $15,  irrespective  of 
v,-hat  he  has  been  leaving  for  her. 

Judge  Mack.  Irrespective  of  what  he  gives,  in  excess  of  $15.  the 
Government  will  give  only  $15.  Now,  he  may  give  her  another  $5 
or  he  may  give  her  his  entire  pay  if  he  wants  to.  but  the  fact  that 
he  gives  more  tlian  $15  does  not  influence  the  Governuient  in  giving 
any  more.    The  Government  amount  is  fixed. 

A  Memijek.  a  mother  has  more  than  (me  son.  say  three,  in  the 
service.     Does  she  get  allowance  from  all  three  sons?     [Laughter.] 


LIFE   INSURANCE,   ETC.,   FOR   SOLDIERS   AXD   SMJ.OUS.  19 

Judge  Mack.  Yes,  h,lie  iiui}';  IhuL  is  so  for  (his  rcabOii.  You  will 
find  Jin  express  provision  to  the  contrary  when  it  comes  to  the  com- 
pensation section;  but  as  to  the  fnmiiy  allowance  section,  it  is  so  fur 
this  reason :  First,  she  must  be  dependent  upon  the  son,  and  second, 
the  total  amount  that  she  is  going  lo  get  in  respect  to  any  of  these 
sons  is  not  moi'e  than  the  amount  tliat  ^he  has  been  iinbitually  get- 
ting. It  would  luive  been  uniut;*  to  confine  it  to  one  son  because  tnat 
one  son  n)ioht  have  given  all  his  allolmeni:  to  supj>oit  his  wife  and 
children,  ihorefore  there  is  no  limitation  to  a  mother  getting  from 
all  of  xier  sons  in  the  Army  or  Navy,  but  she  can  not  get  more  than 
.>;he  has  been  accustomed  to  get  from  them.  And  she  must  be  de- 
pendent upon  each  one  as  to  w  hom  she  gets  an  allowance. 

A  Membkr.  I  have  been  trying  to  follow  you  very  closely.  I 
would  like  to  ask  from  a  standpoint  of  financial  or  domestic  interest, 
is  a  man  allowed  to  make  an  allolmcnc  to  his  sister  or  brother  re- 
gardless of  their  present  financial  state — that  is,  if  their  financial 
situation  is  sufficient  to  take  care  of  their  vital  needs,  can  you  make 
an  aiiotment  just  the  same'^ 

Judge  Mack.  If  yon  mean  exactly  what  you  say,  the  ansv^er  is 
simple;  yes.  But  if  you  mean,  can  he  make  an  allotment  and  tliere- 
by  secure  a  Government  allowance,  the  answer  is  no. 

A  Member.  That  is  what  i  meant. 

Judge  AIack.  Tlie  answer  is  no,  for  this  reason :  That  they  are  not 
dei>endent  u])on  him:  that  is  the  verj'^  hypothesis  of  your  questitju. 
that  they  were  not  dependent  upon  him. 

A  IMembek.  Yes,  sir. 

Judge  Mack.  If  they  are  not  dependent  upon  him  they  would  not 
get  it. 

I  have  tried  to  say  that  father  or  mother  or  grandchildren  or 
broiher  or  sister  can  not  get  a  Government  allowance  unless  they 
are  actually  depcn.dent  upon  the  man  in  whole  or  in  part,  and  they 
can't  ffet  it  even  then  to  a  greater  extent  than  he  has  been  habitually 
contributing  to  them,  and  his  allotment  is  first  taken  into  considera- 
tion, and  only  if  he  has  beon  contributing  nmre  tlian  he  has  to  allot 
to  tiiem  can  he  come  to  tlie  (Government  for  tlie  balance,  and  then  sub- 
ject to  the  limitation  ihat  all  tlie  (iovernment  gives  to  each  dependent 
parent  i&  $10,  and  to  etich  dependent  brother,  sister,  or  grandchild,  $."). 

A  Member.  That  was  my  understanding.     I  wanted  to  be  sure. 

Judge  Mack.  I  am  not  criticizing  yon  for  asking  questions.  I  do 
not  want  you  to  hesitate  to  ask  questions  because  you  might  think 
that  they  are  foolish  (juestious.  It  is  the  api)aren(ly  foolish  question 
that  brings  out  the  points. 

A  Membeu.  In  tlie  instance  where  the  j^arent  had  thi'ec  sons  in  the 
service  and  before  they  wet-t  into  the  service  the  three  sons  ha<l 
coutributed  to  the  support,  but  had  tlitrereut  salaries  and  had  con- 
tributed in  varying  amounts,  the  parents  therefore  are  dependent 
on  all  three  sons,  but  in  the  event  of  a  son  being  killed  who  was  in 
the  habit  of  contributing  the  largest  amount,  would  the  Government 
only  give  them  the  sum  eontributed  by  one  of  the  remaining  sons? 

Judge  Mai  K.  Under  the  law  each  son  is  considered  separately  in 
the  family  allowance,  because  tliat  I'llowjince  will  dei)end  upon  his 
contribution  ami  not  on  the  contribution  of  his  brother. 

A  Member.  Even  in  the  eve;it  of  the  death  of  his  brother? 


20  LIFE    INSrRANCE^   ETC.,   FOR    SOLDIERS   AND   SAILORS. 

Judge  Mack.  It  is  possible  that  the  words  of  the  law  could  be 
stretched  to  covei-  that  case.  I  say  it  is  possible,  but  not  certain,  be- 
cause we  have  expressly  pro^'ided  for  that  sort  of  case  in  the  com- 
pensation article.  You  will  find,  when  I  come  to  that,  in  article 
301  (g) .  at  the  top  of  page  9,  that  such  compensation  shall  be  payable 
wlieiher  her  ^^idoAvhood  arises  before  or  after  the  death  of  "such 
person  and  wlienever  her  condition  is  such  that  if  the  person  were 
living  the  widowed  mother  would  have  been  dependent  upon  him 
for  support.  Now,  that  is  a  case  similar  to  the  one  j^ou  are  putting. 
Su})})ose  she  was  not  dependent  upon  him  at  an}^  time  during  the 
year  before  he  went  into  the  service,  but  she  w^ould  have  been  de- 
pendent upon  him  at  the  present  moment  because  the  family  status 
has  changed ;  suppose  her  husband  has  died ;  if  this  boy  had  not  been 
in  tlie  war,  she  would  have  been  dependent  upon  him. 

That  may  be  one  of  the  omissions  in  the  act,  or  it  may  be  that  the 
liureau  can  cover  it  in  a  reasonable  way  by  a  broad  construction  of 
the  act. 

A  ]Me:mber.  It  would  be  well  to  discharge  that  man  and  let  him  go 
home. 

Judge  Mack.  That  would  be  one  solution.  [Laughter.]  Because 
a  man  can  be  discharged  if  after  he  has  entered  his  people  become 
dependent  upon  him. 

A  ;ME3rBER.  His  regimental  commander  is  the  judge  of  that  under 
tlie  T\'ar  Department's  letter  of  April  4,  1917. 

Judge  Mack.  Now,  you  have,  none  of  you,  asked  about  something 
provided  for  in  section  20S,  l^ut  I  will  call  your  attention  to  it.  How 
are  you  going  to  divide  this  between  wife  and  children  and  between 
parents,  grandparents,  and  the  others?  Well,  the  bureau  will  pro- 
vide regulations.  The  bureau  can  apportion  it  as  it  pleases.  Those 
regulations  are  not  yet  provided.  Experience  will  have  to  demon- 
strate how  best  it  can  be  done. 

A  Member.  Judge  Mack,  if  a  man's  wife  is  working  and  makes 
enough  money  to  take  care  of  herself,  will  she  get  that  $15  paid  as 
an  aljotmerit? 

Judge  Mack.  Yes,  I  v\'ill  say  again ;  because  it  is  evident  I  have  not 
made  myself  perfectly  clear  to  everybody;  just  as  that  millionaire's 
wife  can  get  it  if  she  wants  it,  so  can  the  working  wom.an.  And  she 
has  a  perfect  right  to  get  it.    Is  that  clear? 

A  Metmber.  Yes,  sir. 

Another  Member.  Judge,  suppose  a  man  gets  nsarried  after  this 
goes  through  ? 

Judge  Mack.  It  does  not  make  any  difl'erence  when  he  gets  mar- 
ried. 

A  Member.  I  wanted  to  get  to  this  point:  Is  $15  that  the  Govern- 
ment allows  at  the  start  alloAved  on  the  day  you  get  married  ? 

Judge  Mack.  Yes.  [Prolonged  lau.ghter.']  I  ma}^  say  that  there 
was  one  .sailor  boy  who  was  as  enthusiastic  and  punctual  in  his  at- 
tendance at  the  meetings  of  the  committee  while  this  was  going 
through  as  I  was,  and  the  moment  I  told  him  it  was  through  and 
they  had  not  compelled  the  wife  to  l)e  actu.ally  dependent  upon  him — 
the  Senate  already  had  put  in  a  provision,  and  it  was  only  at  the 
last  m.bment  that  the,y  stru.ck  it  out,  that  the  wife  or  child  must  be 
just  like  the  rest  of  the  relatives,  actually  dependent — the  moment  I 
told  him  that  they  had  stricken  that  out  and  that  it  Avoidd  not  make 


UFE   INSURANCE,   KTC,   FOR    SOLDIERS   AND    SAILORS.  21 

any  difference  whether  that  girl  was  working  or  not,  he  f-jent  a  tele- 
gram out  to  Los  Angeles  to  coine  on.    [Laughter.] 

Director  De  Lanoy.  The  director  Avas  going  to  ask  3'ou  as  to 
whether  he  wanted  to  state  when  this  wedding  is  to  be  held.  ^Vq 
might  make  an  ofticial  nK'nioranthua  of  it. 

A  Mkaibeh.  If  a  man  gives  anything  over  tlie  $15  to  his  wife,  a 
man  getting  $100,  we  will  say,  and  allots  at  least  $15,  application 
lias  first  to  be  made  before  the  $15  will  be  given  by  the  Governments 

Judge  Mack.  Yes.  In  other  words,  the  grant  of  this  money  by  the 
Government  is  not  automatic.     Application  must  be  made. 

Director  De  Laxoy.  That  is  an  important  feature. 

Judge  Mack.  The  point  about  it  v,as  this:  While  we  do  not  for  an 
instant  want  to  deter  anybody  who  is  reasonably  entitled  to  this 
money  from  applying  for  it,  at  the  same  time  even  this  millionaire's 
wife  miglit  take  it  for  pin  money  if  she  did  not  have  to  apply  for  it, 
but  she  Avould  not  take  it  if  she  did  have  to  make  a  direct  application. 
Now,  Avhat  I  want  to  impress  on  you,  however,  in  that  connection  is 
this:  There  are  many  men  in  the  ranks  of  the  privates  and  noncom- 
missioned officers  who  have  made  tremendous  sacrifices  in  going  into 
this  work,  Avho  have  given  up  salaries  of  $100,  $-200,  $300  or  more  and 
are  taking  the  Govei-nment's  $30  to  $100  per  month  and  whose  wife 
and  children  have  Aery  little,  if  anytliing.  Now,  there  is  no  reason 
in  the  Avorld  Avhy  tliose  men  or  tlie  Avife  and  the  children  should  not 
apply  for  this.  The  Government  is  giving  it.  and  they  are  going  to 
have  a  hard  enough  tin.ie  as  it  is  in  getting  doAvn  to  a  much  loAver 
seals  of  living  than  they  are  accustomed  to,  and  the  fact  that  they 
may  have  just  enough  to  keep  them  from  poverty  is  no  reason  for 
refraining  from  asking  for  the  alloAvance.  because  it  is  intended  by 
th.e  (Jovernment  that  they  should  have  it.  The  people  Avho  ought  not 
to  have  it  arc  those  Avho  are  abundantly  able  to  take  care  of  them- 
sehes  Avithout  it. 

A  Memijeh.  Judge  !Mack,  for  information,  Ave  Avill  say.  a  nuin  has 
a  Avife  and  child.  AVould  it  be  a  proper  procedure  to  immediately 
check  his  pay  account  ? 

Ju.dge  ISIack.  Oh,  yes. 

A  Membeii.  "Well,  then,  Avould  that  ncit  automatically  start  an 
alloAvance  to  his  Avife? 

Judge  Mack.  Xo;  the  alloAvance  must  be  applied  for  anyAvay. 

A  Memp-eu.  It  has  to  be  applied  for  anyway^ 

Judge  Mack.  T>ut  the  alloAvance  ajiplication  blanks  are  being 
pi'inted  noAv  Avith  the  infoiniation  that  is  necessary  to  go  Avith  them, 
and  the  plan  is  to  have  them  in  your  liands  to-morroAv  niorning,  so 
you  may  see  just  what  they  say;  in  fact,  I  hope  that  before  Ave  get 
clone  this  afternoon  we  may  have  this  material.  I  Avould  like  very 
much  if  Ave  could  get  hold  of  them,  and  I  Avould  like  very  nnich  to 
have  the  insurance  blanks  before  I  get  done  here. 

A  Me-aibeh.  Judge  Mack 

Judge  Ma(^  K.  Just  a  moment.  Of  course,  aa'c  purpose  having  these 
blanks  distributed  throughout  the  Army  and  the  NaAy.  and  it  is  the 
duty  of  every  enlisted  man,  his  absolute  duty,  to  fill  out  one  of  these 
blanks  and  to  do  it  right  aAvay. 

A  Member.  Judge  Mack,  might  I  ask  a  little  elucidation  on  the 
question  of  the  officer  here?  It  Avould  be  a  matter  that  Avould  be  cov- 
ered bv  regulations,  Avould  it  not.  Avhether  or  not  you  make  a  checka2:c 


22  LIFE   INSURANCE;    ETC.,   FOK    SOLDIERS   AND   SAILORS. 

agaiiLst  :m  enlisted  man's  pa}'  simpl}^  because  the  fact  has  been  devel- 
oped tliat  he  has  a  wife  and  children? 

Judge  Mack.  Oh,  yes;  I  almost  forgot  one  thing  before  leaving  this 
subject;  the  matter  of  compulsory  allotment  and  Government  allow- 
ance begins  November  1.  That  means  that  the  first  deductions  will  be 
on  the  November  pay  roll,  so  that  we  have  quite  a  bit  of  time  to 
gather  all  of  this  information. 

A  IMembek.  Judge  Miick,  could  I  ask  a  question  about  methods^ 
Nov,',  from  tlie  standpoint  of  a  company  commander,  suppose  he 
checks  his  men  up  and  assorts  the  bachelors  and  benedicts,  and  has  his 
two  lists. 

Judge  Mack.  Let  me  suggest  to  you  that  you  put  that  question 
to-morrow  or  Thursday,  because  I  am  not  nov,'  prepared  to  discuss  it, 
and  that  is  one  of  the  most  important  things  tliat  7/ou  gentlemen  are 
here  for — to  consider  together  and  to  consider  with  the  administra- 
tive officials  the  best  methods  of  actually  distributing  all  of  this 
information. 

A  Member.  ISly  point  was  that  if  you  take  your  list  of  mu:ried 
men.  and  some  of  them  do  not  make  this  application,  is  it  then  the 
company  commander's  duty  to  send  the  application  to  the  wife  to  see 
whether  she  wants  to  make  the  application  or  not? 

Judge  Mack.  Weil,  I  do  not  know,  but  it  is  the  duty  of  the  man  to 
fill  m  the  information.  Now,  that  is  a  matter  to  be  determined  and 
is  a  very  interesting  question,  and  suggests  the  possibility  of  putting 
it  up  to  the  wife  if  she  Avants  it  and  the  man  does  not  want  it,  because 
the  beneficiary  may  apply. 

That  is  the  point  I  make,  because  the  beneficiary  may  apply. 

A  Membeh.  Judge  Mack,  not  desiring  to  interrupt  you  too  much, 
I  should  like  to  ask  v,'ith  regard  to  this  matter  that  frequently  in  the 
Army  they  have  had  cases  come  through  the  office  of  complaints  from 
the  wife  that  she  is  not  being  pro\ided  for  by  allotment  from  the  hus- 
band. I  know  of  very  few  cases  in  w^hich  the  Army  commanders  have 
not  been  able  by  moral  or  other  suasion  to  see  that  the  proper  allot- 
ment was  immediately  made. 

Judge  Mack.  The  danger  is  in  the  case  of  deserted  vrives.  Now, 
one  of  the  very  important  things  foi-  you  to  put  up  to  the  men  in  ex- 
plaining their  absolute  duty  under  the  law  to  fill  out  these  statements 
is  that  they  must  tell  the  truth  about  that  and  not  play  off  as 
bachelors. 

A  Me3Ibi:k.  How  about  deserti'd  husbands;  I  know  of  cases  like 
that? 

Judge  !Mack.  Deserted  husbands? 

A  Member.  She  gets  this  money? 

Judge  Mack.  Oh.  no:  a  de;-:crted  husband  wo'ild  have  to  ask  for 
exemption  from  allotment  and  show  that  he  had  been  deserted  by 
his  wife.  After  she  has  had  an  oppoj-tunity  to  be  heard  on  the  sub- 
ject, undoubtedly  exemption  would  be  granted  to  him,  and  she  woidd 
get  neither  allotment  nor  allovv'ance.  Of  course,  there  are  such  cases. 
That  is  why  that  exemption  provision  was  put  in. 

A  Member.  Judge  Mack,  now  in  case  the  wife  has  left  the  husband, 
say,  several  months  ago,  and  the  husband  does  not  know  the  where- 
abou.ts  of  the  wife — all  at  once  tlie  wife  should  find  out  he  is  at  a 
certain  cantonment  and  she  is  going  after  all  she  can  get  and  tries  to 
get  this  allowance 

Judge  Mack.  Yes? 


UFE   INSURANCE^   ETC.,   FOR    SOLDIKR.S    AND   SAILORS,  23 

A  MK^iurR  (continuing).  Has  the  Government  thon  tlie  riglit  to 
take  $!;■)  of  the  private's  ])ay  to  g«>  to  (he  v«ift'^ 

Judge  Mack.  Yes;  it  also  has  the  rigiit  not  to  do  it.  That  was 
tlie  question  I  just  answered.  You  are  stating  the  ca.se  that  was 
just  stated.  A  wife  h.as  deserted  her  husband,  now  shall  she  get  tliis 
money  or  not.  Well,  that  is  going  to  depend  on  circumstances. 
That  is  going  to  be  a  pretty  hard  job  for  Mr.  DeLanoy  and  his  as.so- 
ciates  to  decide,  but  it  is  up  to  them  to  decide.  If  it  is  a  case  of  a 
v»oman  v»ho  has  temporarily  gone  away  and  who  would  have  come 
back,  she  nvdv  be  entitled  to  it;  whereas  in  the  case  of  a  woman  who 
has  been  av.ay  for  a  long  time  and  is  coming  back  just  to  get  the 
money,  liB  will  undoublculy  decide  she  is  not  g<Mng  to  get  it;  but  there 
will  be  some  very  dillicult  cases  there  to  decide. 

A  Mjembek.  In  case  slie  does  not  show  up  and  there  is  no  other 
dependent  on  the  man,  will  there  still  be  a  deduction  of  half  the 
salary  ? 

Judge  Mack.  Yon  mean,  v.'ill  there  be  a  deduclion  in  case  she 
shows  up  in  the  future? 

A  Me^iber.  Yes.  sir;  or  in  case  she  should  not  show  up  and  lliere 
are  no  other  dependents? 

Judge  Mack.  Suppose  there  is  no  wife?    Is  that  your  case? 

A  Mejiber.  Yes. 

Judge  Mack.  All  right,  I  will  come  to  that.  That  is  the  last  thing 
in  reference  to  this  allowance.  The  Secretary  of  War  and  the  Secre- 
tary of  the  Navy  have  the  power  under  tliis  act  to  adopt  regulations 
that  so  much  of  onedialf  of  a  man's  pay  -.xf^  is  not  allotted  either 
volui.itarily  or  compulsorily  shall  be  deposited  with  the  Cnited 
States  and  bear  4  per  cent  interest.  Now,  liie  Secretar}^  of  War  and 
the  Secretary  of  the  Nas^'  have  not  yet  adopted  such  a  reguhition. 
They  have  the  power  to  do  so  at  any  time  they  believe  it  wise.  If 
they  do  that  the  i-esult  is  this,  that  if  a  man  has  no  dependents  to 
whom  he  is  allotting  and  nobody  else  to  whom  he  is  allotting  tlie 
money,  instead  of  getting  that  $30  per  month  paid  to  him,  say.  over 
in  France,  the  Secretary  of  War  or  Navy  may  say,  "  We  will  keep 
$15  of  it  on  deposit  here  for  you  at  4  per  cent  interest,  com- 
pounded semiannually,  and  you  will  only  get  $15."  The  reason  for 
that  is  that  it  is  believed  by  a  good  many— and  if  the  Secretary  of 
War  so  believes  it  he  will  make  a  regulation — that  there  is  grave 
danger  to  the  morale  of  the  Aniiy  to  allow  the  men  to  have  $B() 
spending  money  over  in  France.  And  the  great  dangers  are  these: 
P'irst,  and  perhaps  least,  because  the  Government  is  not  trying  to  be 
guardian  to  men  as  if  they  were  children,  the  danger  to  the  man  him- 
self. Second,  the  danger  that  arises  when  ukmi  in  the  same  rank  are 
having  a  different  amount  of  spending  money  is  to  l)e  considered. 
These  men  who  have  wives  at  home  must  cut  down  one-half,  and  the 
bachelor  will  have  twice  as  much.  But  even  that  is  not  as  serious  as 
the  next.  You  are  going  to  be  brothers  in  ai-ms  of  the  Fnglish  and 
the  French,  and  they  get  very  little  pay,  and  your  spending  numey  of 
one-half  pay  is  going  to  Ije  a  great  deal  more  than  their  entire  pay, 
and  that  may  be  demoralizing.  But  even  that  is  not  the  worst.  France 
is  poverty  stricken.  The  American  boys  are  in  gra\  e  danger  of  looking 
at  money  from  an  American  standr^oint  when  they  are  over  in  France 
instead  of  from  a  French  standpoint.    Feu-  a  French  pea:-ant  in  ordi- 


24  LIFE    INSURANCE^   ETC.^   FOR    SOLDIERS   AND    SAILORS. 

nary  times  a  franc  is  as  big  as  a  dollar ;  in  these  times  it  is  a  great  deal 
more  than  a  dollar.  But  for  the  American  boy  going  over  there 
■with  comparatively  plenty  of  monej'^  in  his  pocket  a  dollar  does  not 
seem  large,  and  to-day  it  is  not  merely  5  francs,  it  is  nearly  6  francs. 
AVhen  lie  throws  away  that  dollar  he  is  throwing  away  nearly  6 
francs,  and  that  in  ordinary  times  to  the  French  peasant  is  a  great 
deal,  and  to-day  to  most  people  in  France  it  is  a  great  deal  of  -money. 
The  result  is  the  demoralizing  of  the  very  people  we  are  trying  to 
help,  because  of  our  extravagance  and  because  through  that  extrava- 
gance we  are  raising  the  price  of  all  supplies  in  France. 

NoAv.  those  are  the  reasons  that  are  urged  by  the  commander  in 
chief  of  the  American  Army  in  France,  Gen.  Pershing,  to  cut  down 
the  s]^endi»ig  monej"  of  the  boys  over  there,  and  to  cut  it  down,  even 
more  than  this  law  provides  for,  because,  in  his  judgment,  ex])ressed 
and  broiight  over  here  with  his  sanction.  $10  a  month  is  more  spend- 
ing money  than  a  man  ought  to  have  in  the  trenches  under  these 
circumstances — not  that  Americans  can  not  be  trusted  to  spend  a 
heap  more  than  $10,  but  that  under  all  the  circum.stances  $10  spend- 
ing money  for  the  boys  in  the  trenches  is  now  too  much. 

A  Member.  Judge,  just  a  moment,  before  you  lea^.e  the  subject. 
The  decision  of  the  Director  of  the  Bureau,  of  War-Risk  Insurance, 
is  the  director  protected  ?     Is  his  decision  final  ? 

Judge  Mack.  His  decision  is  final. 

A  Memree.  There  is  no  appeal? 

Judge  AIack.  No  appeal  therefrom.  His  decision  ends  it ;  that  is, 
his  decision  is  final  on  all  questions  under  this  act  with  one  single 
exception — claims  under  the  insurance  policies;  if  the  claimants  have 
a  difference  with  him,  they  can  fight  it  out  in  court;  but  outside  of 
that  his  decision  is  final ;  you  can  not  go  to  court  about  it. 

A  Member.  If  a  man  has  an  allotment  already  going,  is  it  auto- 
matically stopped  the  1st  of  November  when  you  make  out  this  com- 
pulsory allotment? 

Judge  Mack.  I  can  not  answer  that.  I  do  not  know.  The  com- 
pulsory allotment  will  take  precedence.  I  do  not  know  what  the 
War  aiid  the  Navy  Departments  are  going  to  provide  as  to  the  present 
allotments.  That  is  a  uiatter  that  ought  to  be  taken  care  of,  I  should 
say.  I  do  not  know  what  they  have  in  mind  on  that.  I  have  not 
discus.sed  that  with  them. 

A  ^Member.  I  do  not  think  the  intention  is  to  interfere  with  the 
voluntary-allotment  system  of  1809. 

A  Member.  The  point  is,  if  a  man  has  made  an  allotment  which 
runs  until  it  stops,  will  you  take  out  the  compulsory  allotment  also, 
or  call  it  to  his  attention? 

Judge  Mack.  The  compulsory  allotment  must  be  attended  to. 

A  Member.  Of  course,  the  compulsory  allotment  nnist  be  attended 
to.  He  has  nothing  to  sav  about  that ;  but  suppose  a  man  at  present 
is  allotting  the  $15  to  a  wife,  will  you  take  the  $15  plus  the  $15? 

Judge  Mack.  Unless  he  stops  it,  which  he  has  a  right  to  do. 

A  Member.  Of  course  he  has  a  right  to  do  it,  but  might  it  not  be 
better  to  constme  the  voluntary  allotment  as  including  the  com- 
pulsory allotment?  Would  that  perhaps  not  be  a  little  wiser  in  the 
interest  of  the  man?  That  is  a  matter  that  should  be  carefully  con- 
sidered.   A  man  to-day  allotting  $15  to  his  wife,  if  a  law  steps  in  and 


LIFE  INSUBANCE,   ETC.,   FOE   SOLDIERS  AND   SAILORS.  25 

takes  $15  for  his  wife  whether  he  will  or  not,  I  slioiild  think  it  mii];lit 
be  well  to  consider  what  he  has  been  volnntaril}'  oiving  to  her,  if  this 
is  to  be  a  part  of  this  compulsory  allotment. 

eJuclge  Mack.  That  coiihl  l>e  done. 

A  Membki!.  That  would  be  the  natural  construction  of  his  volun- 
tary allotment. 

A  Mc^iBEH.  I  should  like  to  ask  if  anything  in  regard  to  this  has 
been  sent  into  the  field,  to  the  commanders  who  are  there,  in  reference 
to  the  Liberty  Loan  bonds.  If  nothing  has  been  sent  out  as  to  Novem- 
ber 1,  1  am  afraid  we  will  find  ourselves  in  a  bad  jam. 

Judge  Mack.  All  I  can  say  is,  I  know  the  Secretary  of  the  Treas- 
ury addressed  the  cantonmejits  out  in  the  State  of  Washington  in 
colinection  with  the  Liberty  Loan  and  he  told  them  about  the  pro- 
visions of  this  act  at  the  time  he  was  talking  to  them  about  the 
Liberty  Loan. 

A  MioruER.  Is  that  just   recently? 

Judge  Mack.  That  is  within  the  last  Aveek,  October  9,  but  how  far 
that  has  been  done  I  do  not  know;  I  can  not  answer  that  question. 

A  Membkr.  The  question  has  come  in  from  most  of  the  canton- 
ments as  to  the  ett'ect  of  the  compulsory  allotment  and  the  insurance, 
and  I  think  with  few  exceptions  the  connnanding  generals  of  the 
cantonments  and  most  of  the  large  posts  have  given  ju.st  the  sub- 
stance of  the  provisions  of  this  law  as  to  how  it  would  affect  the  en- 
listed men,  particularly  with  a  view  to  opening  the  way  for  them  to 
continue  making  their  allotments  for  tlie  purcha&v  of  Liberty  Bonds. 

Officer.  The  lieutenant's  suggestion  with  reference  to  the  liiberty 
Loan,  I  think,  is  a  good  one  for  this  reason.  Many  of  the  company 
conmianders  in  speaking  about  the  Liberty  Bonds  have  told  their 
men  that  this  allotment  in  the  bill  as  contemplated  would  not  be  com- 
pulsory, that  these  allotments  would  be  optional  on  the  part  of  the 
men. 

Judge  Mack.  To  the  wife  and  child? 

Officer.  Yes,  sir. 

Judge  Mack.  That  is  unfortunate. 

Officer.  Those  statements  have  Ijeen  made  in  our  camp  and  prob- 
ably have  been  made  in  other  camps. 

judge  Mack.  Very  unfortunate,  because  for  the  last  three  months 
anybody  who  had  asked  anything  about  it  would  have  been  told  the 
contrary.  Neither  the  origii\al  nor  any  later  draft  of  the  bill  as  it 
went  through  contemi>late<!  anything  but  a  compulsory  allotment  for 
wife  and  child.  It  is  very  unfortunate  that  any  commander  -hould 
have  made  staten.ients  of  that  kind. 

A  Member.  Judge  Mack,  in  that  telegram  of  The  Adjutant  General 
it  was  specifically  stated  that  these  compulsory  allotments  were  re- 
quired. 

Judffe  Mack.  But  Lieut.  I^eebles  means  long  before  that,  don't 
you  i 

Officer.  No;  just  recently,  Judge,  that  this  has  been  done.  1  might 
add,  too,  that  the  ollieers  aJ-e  assuming  that  this  present  draft  does 
not  inchide  any  men  wlio  have  dependents. 

Judge  Mack.  Well,  that  is  a  pretty  broad  as>umption. 

A  Me:mber.  Is  that  not  the  law.  that  no  man  was  to  be  drafted 
that  has  a  wife  dependent  upon  him  ? 


26  LIFE    INSURANCE,   ETC.,   FOR    SOLDIERS   AND   SAILORS. 

Judge  Mack.  Well,  a  niaii  may  be  exempted  if  he  has  people 
dependent  on  him,  but  that  word  "  dependent  ■'  has  been  construed 
diii'erently  in  different  States,  and  there  are  many  men  who  have 
families  dependent  on  them  ^\lio  have  insisted  patriotically  on  going 
to  war  anyway,  and  they  have  done  it  because  a  number  of  them  knew 
that  the  (Tovernuient  was  going  to  make  some  such  provision  as  this. 
Moreover,  in  the  second  draft  tiie  situation  will  be  different  because 
of  this  piovision. 

Befoi-e  I  touch  on  compensation  let  us  go  back  to  these  definitions 
on  page  4.  In  the  first  place,  so  far  as  the  allotment  and  allowance 
is  concerned,  what  usually  is  called  a  common-law  marriage,  if  it 
has  existed  for  two  yeai*s,  will  be  suflicient.  In  other  words,  if  a  man 
and  woman  have  openly  and  publicly  lived  together  as  man  and 
wife — I  mean  recognized  each  other  and  have  been  recognized  as 
husband  and  wife — for  two  years  and  neither  of  them  is  debarred  by 
reason  of  having  another  husband  or  wife,  so  that  if  they  had  gone 
through  a  ceremony  there  would  have  been  no  bar  to  their  marriage, 
they  ai-e  deemed  for  the  purposes  of  this  part  of  the  act  to  be  husband 
and  wife.  As  to  the  other  articles  of  the  act,  the  law  is  more  strict. 
It  requires  pretty  strict  proof  of  marriage  in  order  to  entitle  the 
woman  to  the  rights  of  a  married  woman  under  the  compensation 
and  under  the  insurance  clauses — perhaps  much  too  strict — but,  then, 
C'ougi^ess  put  that  in  :  it  Avas  not  in  our  draft. 

Now,  then.  "  cliiid.''  as  used  throughout  the  act.  includes  not  only 
legitimate  children,  but  it  includes  s'^iep  children  when  they  are  mem- 
bers of  the  ho'.'.sehold.  It  includes  adopted  children  if  thev  have  been 
adopted  at  least  six  months  before  the  act  went  into  effect,  or  six 
months  before  enlistment,  if  enlistment  is  after  that.  It  includes 
illegitimate  children,  provided  the  man  has  acknowledged  or  acknowl- 
edges them  as  his  own  in  writing,  or  provided  a  court  has  decreed 
that  he  must  contjibute  to  their  support.  And  a  grandchild  would 
include  a  child  as  defined  of  a  chihl  as  defined  in  the  act.  The  child 
or  the  grnndohiid  in  order  to  get  tlie  family  allovranco  ())■  the  com- 
|->ensation  must  be  unmarried  and  under  the  age  of  18,  or  if  18  or  over 
must  be  insane,  idiotic,  or  otherAvise  permanently  helpless.  The  term 
"  parent  "  includes,  as  T  told  you  before,  not  only  father  and  mother, 
but  step-parents,  grandparents,  and  the  parents,  step-parents,  or 
gi'andparents  of  the  wife  as  well  as  of  the  husband.  Brothers  and 
sisters  in(;lude  the  half  blood  as  well  as  the  whole  blood,  step-brother 
and  sister,  and  those  thi-ongh  adoption. 

Now.  the  military  and  na\'al  forces  that  we  talked  about  include 
all  of  the  forces  of  every  kind  that  are  in  the  actual  service.  The  act 
makes  no  distinction  whatsoever  between  roen  and  women  in  the  same 
position.  If  Ave  should  get  a  fighting  corps  of  women  like  the  Rus- 
sian brigade  they  Avould  be  treated  exactly  like  men  under  this  first 
section:  their  children  and  their  brothers  and  sisters  and  parents 
Avould  get  the  allowance,  but  their  husbands  Avordd  not  get  anything 
[laughter],  as  it  is  limited  to  a  Avife.  MoreoA^ei-.  the  allotm.ent  by  a 
woman  is  not  compulsory  even  as  to  a  child.    It  is  volnntary. 

I  might  s;..y  that  there  are  Avomen  in  the  service.  We  have  some 
female  veomen  in  the  Navy,  and  they  Avould  come  within  this  article 
on  famih'  nlloAvances. 


UFE   IXSURAKCE,   ETC.,   FOR    SOLDIERS   AND    SAILORS.  27 

The  Army  and  Navy  Xurse  Corps  (iVniaU')^  Avhich  include  in  their 
reser>e  the  Ked  Cross  nnises,  who  have  come  into  the  active  .service  of 
the  Anny  or  the  Navy,  and  therefore  are  no  longei-  in  the  pay  of  the 
Red  Cross  but  in  the  pay  of  the  Government,  are  given  the  conipenr.a- 
tion  and  the  privilege  of  in.surance  the  s;;me  a.s  enlisted  men  or  commis- 
sioned officers.  They  are  not  enlisted;  (hey  are  not  commissioned; 
they  are  oidy  employed,  but  ne^■erthele.ss,  inasmuch  as  they  incur 
the  same  risk  it  was  deemed  right  that  they  sliouhl  be  inchided  in 
this  military  and  nrival  bill:  and  they  are  specifically  mentioned  in 
articles  3  and  4. 

COMPElSrSATION. 

NoTv.  the  (juestion  of  com|x>nsa(ion :  Compensation  is  very  much 
like  the  present  pensions,  except  in  the  fun.dn.mental  underlying 
thought.  The  pension,  especially  the  serWce  pension,  has  been  re- 
garded by  many  as  a  gratuity.  This  bill  is  based  on  the  anah)gy  of 
the  workman's  compensation  act.  If  a  civil  employee  is  injui*ed  or 
dies  in  and  througli  his  service,  the  United  States  or  any  other  en^- 
ployer  pays  compensntion  to  him  or  to  his  family  for  disability  or 
deatli;  similarly  the  military  employee  ought  to  get  it. 

The  bill  strikes  a  new  note,  however,  in  one  respect.  The  workman 
himself  is  the  employee.  He  is  the  unit  with  whom  the  employer 
<leals.  and  thtn'efore  in  all  the  vrorkmen's  compensation  acts,  if  a  mtm 
is  disabled,  the  amount  of  compensation  that  is  paid  to  him  depends 
npon  his  salary  ii>  the  business  and  his  family  does  not  enter  into  the 
consideration.  We  felt  in  drafting  this  act,  however,  that  the  situa- 
tion was  diiferent.  particularly  in  vievs^  of  conscription.  Under  the 
conscription  law  the  family  is  conscripted  when  the  breadwinner  is 
taken  away.  The  family  in  giving  up  its  head  is  serving  the  country, 
and  the  family,  tlierefore.  ought  to  be  looked  at  in  determining  the 
amount  that  the  (lovernmeut  pays  for  disability  or  death:  and  so  the 
amount  that  is  paid,  if  a  man  becoH>es  disabled  in  the  service  or.  a.-^ 
the  law  puts  it.  in  the  line  of  duty,  varies  according  to  the  sv/.e  of  his 
family:  and.  as  a  matter  of  justice,  it  w^as  felt,  and  Congre.=;s  indorsed 
the  idea,  that  it  should  vary  according  to  the  size  of  his  family  frr.m 
month  to  month.  If  the  family  status  ciianges  from  month  to  month, 
from  year  to  year,  the  amount  of  conijiensation  payable  monthly 
should  change  with  it.  If  a  man  is  a  bacheloi'.  he  will  get  so  much 
for  total  disability:  15  years  from  now.  if  he  shoidd  huve  married 
and  has  children,  the  amount  of  his  coin|)ensation  will  depend  at 
that  time  uj/on  his  status  then:  and  so.  if  he  becomes  a  widower  and 
has  n<»  children  and  no  wife  to  look  after,  the  compensation  will  be 
reduced  to  the  same  amount  as  that  of  a  bachelor.  Now.  the  amount 
of  the  compensation  you  will  find  fixed  in  the  bill;  the  amount  for 
total  disability  ranges  from  $^^0  for  bachelors  to  a  maximum  of  s7.">. 
maximum  except  for  11, is.  that  if  a  man.  whether  bachelor  or  married. 
has  a  widowed  mother  depen«]ent  on  him,  $10  is  added  because  of  that 
fact :  further,  the  bureau  may  allow  him  up  to  $-20  a  month  if  his  con- 
dition is  such  that  he  needs  the  constant  aid  of  a  nurse  or  attendant. 

Congress  put  in  one  further  provision,  borrowed  from  the  pension 
laws.  It  destroys  the  harmony  and  synnnetry  of  the  bill:  but  those 
of  you  who  are  injured  will  care  very  little  for  the  harmony  and 
symmetry  of  the  bill  as  against  the  increased  compensation  that  it  is 
going  to  give  you.  It  provides  specifically  that,  regardless  of  family 
status,  a  bachelor  and  a  man  with  seven  childien  shall  be  treated  alike: 


28  LIFE   INSURANCE,   ETC.,   FOR   SOLDIERS  AND   SAILORS. 

for  the  loss  of  both  hands,  both  feet,  both  eyes,  total  blindness,  or 
for  a  permanently  helpless,  bedridden  condition,  $100  monthly  shall 
be  given. 

In  addition  to  this,  the  man  is  going  to  get  governmental  medical 
and  surgical  treatment,  and  he  is  going  to  be  supplied,  subject  to 
regulations  to  be  made  by  the  bureau  so  as  to  prevent  abuse_  of 
it,  with  such  appliances  as  he  may  need,  not  merely  in  the  beginning 
but  as  long  as  his  disability  continues,  artificial  limbs  and  eyes  and 
things  of  that  kind. 

If  he  is  not  totally,  but  only  partially  disabled,  the  amount 
that  he  is  going  to  get  will  be  a  percentage  of  the  amount  that  ho 
would  have  gotten  if  he  had  been  totally  disabled,  a  percentage  of 
this  $30  to  $75  a  month  dependent  upon  his  family  status.  That 
percentage  is  going  to  be  fixed  by  regulations  of  the  bureau,  and  is 
going  to  be  based  upon  what  may  be  found  to  be  the  decrease — the 
average  decrease  in  earning  pov.er  that  similar  injuries  produce  in 
civil  life.  Now,  of  course,  that's  a  mighty  hard  job.  You  can  not  be 
exact  about  it,  and  experience  will  determine  whether  they  have 
struck  the  right  percentages  or  the  wrong  percentages;  and  they  have 
the  right  to  change  those  percentages.  Germany  and  France  and 
England  have  given  us  examples,  and  the  experience  of  the  whole 
v.orld  will  be  studied  in  fixing  the  schedule.  The  pension  law  has 
certain  fixed  schedules. 

It  vcas  deemed  best  for  the  partial  disabilities  not  to  have  some- 
thing rigid,  amendable  only  by  Congress,  but  to  have  a  more  flexible 
s}'stem.  The  compensation  is  paid  during  the  period  of  disability, 
vrhether  that  disability  be  total  or  partial,  whether  it  last  a  month  or 
last  during  the  lifetime  of  the  man ;  because  a  man  may  be  completely 
disaliled  but  only  for  a  month  and,  on  the  other  hand,  he  may  be  only 
partially  disal^led,  but  for  life.  Suppose  he  gets  typhoid  fever  in  the 
.service ;  he  may  be  completely  disabled  for  two  months.  During  those 
two  months  he  will  get  his  pay.  If  he  then  recovers  and  is  entirely 
Avell  again,  after  that  he  won't  get  anything. 

A  Memijek.  That  is,  after  the  man  is  separated  from  the  service? 

BEEDUCATION. 

Judge  Mack.  I  will  come  to  that  later.  To  answer  you  specifically, 
yes:  but  I  will  go  a  little  more  fully  into  that  later.  Now,  I  say  it 
is  right  and  just  that  this  should  be  done,  but  it  is  not  the  most 
important  thing  to  be  done.  The  Government  is  taking  you  men 
and  your  felloAvs  whole,  physically  strong;  by  reason  of  your  patriotic 
service  you  receive  these  disabilities.  The  primary  duty  of  the  Gov- 
ernment is  to  make  you  well  again,  if  it  possi})ley  can,  and  to  stimu- 
late you  to  make  yourselves  Avell  again — well  phj'^sically,  well  eco- 
nomically, and  well  mentally,  of  course.  Germany  has  set  the  ex- 
ample in  rehabilitating  those  injured  in  industry,  and  the  rest  of 
the  Vv'orld  is  following.  The  most  important  thing  the  Government 
can  do  is  to  rehabilitate  the  injured  men;  to  reeducate  those  who  be- 
cause of  their  injuries  are  unable,  after  they  get  Avell,  to  follow  their 
former  occupations.  The  man  who  needed  liis  hands  for  his  job 
and  has  lost  them  must  be  trained  to  do  something  else  without  his 
hands.  It  is  a  tremendous  job  that  this  Nation  and  all  the  nations 
are  facing.  This  particular  bill  does  not  provide  how  it  shall  be 
done.    It  merely  assumes  that  it  is  going  to  be  done  and  that  further 


LIFE   INSURANCE,   ETC.,   FOR    SOLDIERS    AND   SAILORS.  29 

leii'iskition  is  f^oin<>"  to  be  enacted  when  it  shall  lui\c  bet-n  delei-ininej 
fully  after  the  nio^t  careful  .'-tiidy  how  it  can  best  be  done.  In  tho 
meantime  the  Sui'geon  (ieneraPs  Department  has  full  power  and 
authority  and  is  making  full  preparations  for  the  beginning  of  this 
sort  of  work,  because  as  soon  as  the  man  is  in  the  s-j'rvice-he  is  subject 
to  the  service  regulations,  and  the  service  has  full  power  to  go  ahead 
Avith  this  sort  of  tiling.  The  Surgeon  General's  Olfice  begins  witli 
the  base  hospital;  it  provides  possibilities  of  employnn^nt  right  there. 

But  on  this  subject  this  bill  makes  two  fi~^al  provisions.  We 
start  out  with  this  thought,  that  there  is  grave  danger  when  men  go 
thrt)Ugh  the  frightful  exi)eriences  that  some  will  have  to  go  through 
in  the  trenches  and  then  the  hospital  experiences  that  they  will  have 
to  go  thi-ough,  th:)t  they  may  lose  all  their  stamina.  This  is  particu- 
larly liable  to  hapi^en  when  they  know-  that  the  Crovernment  is  going  to 
give  them  something  for  the  rest  of  their  lives;  there  is  gi-ave  diiuger 
that  they  will  be  content  to  go  on  with  that  minimum.  But  life,  of 
course,  is  not  static.  If  men  do  not  go  up  they  will  go  down,  and 
the  last  men  the  Government  and  the  people  want  to  see  go  down  are 
these  men.  Therefore  the  only  thino;  to  do  is  to  see  that  the}'  go  up. 
They  must  be  stimulated,  and  this  bill  provides. two  stimulants — one 
negative  and  one  positive.  The  negative  is  this,  that  a  man  must 
take  tho  treatment,  must  take  the  course  of  education  that  the  Gov- 
ernment will  jirovide  or  pi-ocure  to  be  pi'ovided,  under  penalty  of 
suspension  of  his  compensation  during  any  period  of  unreasonable 
refusal.  But  that  is  negative;  there  is  something  better,  there  is 
something  positive.  It  is  not  only  in  the  interest  of  the  man  him- 
self that  he  should  be  kej^t  from  going  down,  that  he  should  be  dis- 
contented with  the  dead  level  of  the  (iovernment  minimum  compen- 
sation ;  it  is  equally  in  the  interest-  of  the  State.  It  is  in  the  common 
interest  that  every  latent  power  of  the  man  should  Be  developed, 
that  he  sluiuM  strive  for  the  highest  economic  level  that  it  is  possible 
for  him  to  attain;  and  in  ordei'  to  stimulate  him  still  moi'e  to  strive 
for  that,  it  is  expressly  provided  in  this  bill  that  the  compensation 
which  the  Government  gives  him,  let  us  say  for  the  loss  of  his  legs, 
is  not  going  to  be  taken  away  from  him  because  he  has  attained  an 
even  higher  economic  position  than  he  had  before  the  war.  The 
compensation  Avill  be  continued  as  long  as  the  physical  disability 
continues,  regardless  of  the  economic  recu]5eration.  After  a  man's 
discharge  he  can  be  reenlisted  com]uilsorily  under  some  form  of 
reenlistment,  if  he  needs  reeducation;  but.  of  course,  until  he  is 
discharged  he  does  not  come  within  tlie  provisions  of  the  compensa- 
tion article,  because  w  bile  a  man  is  in  the  service  and  getting  his  pay 
he  d(X^s  not  get  the  disability  provision.  Moi'eover,  as  you  know, 
(lilicers  in  the  Iiegular  Army  are  not  apt  to  take  those  disability  pvo- 
visions,  because  they  ni:iy  be  retired  and  get  three-fourths  of  their 
regular  pay  on  retirement.  That  does  not  apply,  however,  to  the 
enlisted  men  and  it  does  not  apply  to  the  otheers  in  the  National 
Army. 

Xow.  there  is,  in  my  judgment,  a  very  .-erious  defect  in  the  com- 
pensation provisions  of  this  law — but  Congress  thought  otherwise — 
a  defect  that  may  prevent  the  law  from  acc(unplishing  one  of  its 
purposes.     We  hoped  in  making  fairly  generous  and   all-inclusive 


80  LIFE   INSURANCE,   ETC.,   FOR   SOLDIERS   AND   SAILORS. 

provisiciis  before  the  men  go  out,  to  prevent  the  special  pension  legis- 
lation, wliich  has  been  one  of  the  chief  evils  of  the  past.  AVe  at- 
temi^ted  to  do  this,  follovv-ing  the  analogy  of  the  workmen's  compen- 
sation acts  and  the  precedent,  too,  of  ail  pension  legislation,  b}'^  bas- 
ing the  disability  compensation  on  the  pay  that  the  man  had  been 
receiving;  basing  it,  of  course,  also,  as  1  said  before,  on  the  family 
status.  Tlie  bill  as  presented  to  Congress  provided  not  only  for 
sojiiev.hat  liigher  amounts  than  Congress  finally  gave — we  began 
witbi  $40  instead  of  with  $30 — but  it  also  provided  that  the  compen- 
sation should  bo  a  ])ercc.ntage  of  the  pay  with  a  certain  minimum. 
Now,  the  minimum  that  was  fixed  was  higher  than  the  percentage 
for  all  under  the  rank  of  commissioned  officers.  But  commissioned 
officers  would  have  received  more,  and  there  would  have  been  a  dis- 
tinction between  commissioned  officers  and  the  others.  We  thought 
that  this  v>  as  right  and  proper,  particularly  in  view  of  the  fact  that 
the  connnissioned  officers  in  the  Regidar  Army  get  three-fourths  of 
their  pay  on  retirement.  Congress,  hovrever,  decreed  that  no  distinc- 
tion should  be  made  between  disabled  privates  and  officers,  and  for 
this  reason,  that  under  conscription  the  men  in  the  ranks  of  tho 
privates  come,  as  the  oiiicers  do,  from  all  the  vcalks  of  life,  and  there 
are  plenty  of  privates  who  are  making  greater  financial  sacrifices 
than  the  officers.  That  seemed  to  be  the  reason  that  influenced  Con- 
gress to  wipe  out  all  distinction  between  officers  and  men.  The 
danger  in  so  doing  is.  as  T  say,  ih-dt  there  may  bo  private  pension 
legislation  herea f ter. 

Now,  the  same  thing  v.as  done  in  respect  to  the  widov.'s  and  children 
of  officers  and  men  who  are  killed  either  in  the  service  or  as  the  re- 
sult of  injuries  sustained  or  diseases  contracted  in  tlie  line  of  their 
duty.  Congress  again  said  there  should  be  no  distinction  betv^cen 
fcliose  of  the  ^)^i^  ates  and  those  of  the  officers.  The  amounts  given 
you  will  find  in  the  bill.  They  range  from  $20  for  the  orphan  child, 
$25  for  a  widow  without  children,  running  up  to  $60  for  the  family, 
with  a  possibility  of  $20  more  for  a  dependeiit  wid(nved  mother,  but 
the  total  not  to  exceed  $75  a  month.  I  need  hardly  say  that  all  of 
these  provisions  are  eminently  more  libei-al  than  ever  have  been  given 
before,  and,  at  least  for  privates  and  noncommissioned  olHccrs,  are 
very  much  more  liberal  than  the  pensions  of  any  other  country. 

There  is  this  limitation  on  tlie  i-ight  of  a  willow  to  receive  the  com- 
pensation :  That  she  must  have  married  the  man  either  before  the 
injury  or  within  10  years  after  the  injury.  If  she  marries  him  more 
than  10  years  after  tlie  injury,  she  gets  no  compensation  as  his  wido\\\ 
Of  course,  his  children  are  treated  alike  no  matter  from  what  mar- 
riage they  result,  but  the  woman  herself  must  have  n-iarried  the  man 
within  10  years  from  the  time  of  the  injury  in  order  to  come  within 
the  provisions  of  the  compensation  act. 

Thf  law  expressl}^  provides  for  burial  expenses  not  exceeding  $100, 
but  that  is  only  in  case  death  occurs  before  discharge  from  the  serv- 
ice; and  it  includes  the  return  of  the  body. 

Two  more  things  about  this  compensation  I  must  call  your  atten- 
tion to:  Compensation  is  dependent  upon  the  injury  having  been  re- 
ceived or  the  disease  contracted  in  line  of  duty.  Now.  the  director 
of  the  bureau  may  have  a  difficult  task  defining  "  In  the  line  of  dutv." 
We  tried  to  get  Congress  to  strike  out  these  words,  because  they  have 
been  defined  in  a  number  of  different  ways.     I  think,  knowing  him, 


UFE   INSUIUXCE,    ETC.,    FOR    SOLDIERS    AXD   SAILORS.  31 

that  he  is  poiiiij  to  tiike  the  most  liboial  constiuction  that  is  allowed; 
but  the  injury  must  ha\'e  been  incurreil  in  the  line  of  duty. 

One  of  tile  troubles  about  the  administiation  of  the  i)ei;fti«.)n  act  has 
bei'M  that  men  conic  up  20  or  oO  years  after  the  Wcvr  and  say  they  aro 
sick  now  because  of  injuries  received  during  the  war.  The  pr<.»bleni 
was  how  to  avoid  this  sort  of  possible  fraud;  there  was  adopted  what 
we  think  is  a  fair  measure — fair  to  the  man,  fair  to  the  Government. 
A  man  m-.tst  p-t  a  certificate  as  a  result  of  modical  examination  either 
before  his  discharge  or  within  a  year  after  his  discharge,  stating  th:it 
ho  has  received  an  injury  or  contracte(i  a  disease  in  the  line  of  duty 
which  either  has  caiised  his  disability  or  is  likely  to  cause  disability 
or  death.  iSow,  if  he  gets  that  certificate,  then  he  has  a  prima  facie 
case  no  matter  Avhen  he  becomes  disabled  or  dies.  If  his  disability 
or  death  is  really  a  result  of  that  injury  he  comes  within  the  act. 
But  if  he  fails  to  get  th;it  certificate,  then  he  can  not  get  compensation 
unless  he  die-;  or  becomes  disabled  within  a  year  after  the  dischaige. 
In  other  words,  he  knows  that  unless  he  becomes  disabled  before  or 
within  a  year  after  discharge  that  he  must  get  this  certificate  in  that 
time,  stating  that  he  has  incurred  injury  or  contracted  a  disease  which 
is  likely  to  cause  death  or  disiibilitj  in  the  future.  Now,  of  course, 
if,  on  the  next  day,  he  should  be  run  over  by  a  street  car  and  killed 
and  his  disability,  whatever  it  might  have  been,  had  no  connection 
with  this  accident,  he  would  not  have  died  as  a  result  of  injuries  in- 
curred in  the  line  of  duty,  and  his  family  could  receive  no  compensa- 
tion for  that.  But  suppose  he  had  become  totally  blind  in  the  line 
of  duty,  and  his  blindness  caused  him  after  his  discharge  to  be  killed 
by  a  street  car,  then  his  death  is  drie  to  an  injury  that  he  received  in 
the  line  of  dut}'.  and  the  comi)ensation  Avould  be  paid;  and  that  would 
be  so  whethei-  the  death  occurred  1  year  after  or  '20  years  after  dis- 
chai'ge. 

As  to  filing  the  claim,  a  man  or  his  family  must  file  a  claim  if  he  or 
they  ever  want  to  get  anj'thing  under  compensation  provisions,  and 
that  within  T)  j'ears  after  the  time  the  claim  arises.  The  claim  arises 
at  the  time  the  disability  liegins  or  death  occurs. 

A  ME3iiiER.  Judge,  I  would  like  to  ask:  On  page  -t,  Xo.  6,  it  speaks 
of  an  officer  in  active  service,  does  that  include  a  person  on  the  retired 
list  assigned  to  active  duty? 

'ludge  Mack..  Yes;  that  is  why  we  have  used  the  phrase  "  in  active 
service"  instead  of  using  the  phrase  "on  the  active  list.""  A  person 
on  the  retired  list  assigned  to  active  duty  is  in  active  service  and  it  was 
intended  to  include  him  and  does  include  him. 

A  I^Ie-mber.  Judge,  referring  to  that  page,  it  states  there  that  mem- 
bers of  training  camps  come  within  this  act? 

Judge  Mack*  Yes. 

A  MEMnEK.  Xow,  this  training  cam])  ends  on  November  ^G,  and 
on  the  'iVth  the  members  are  going  to  be  discharged  as  civilians  or 
commissioned  as  oilicers.  Must  this  allotment  for  the  wife  be  made 
in  this  training  camp  for  the  part  of  the  month  of  November? 
[Laughter.  1 

Judge  Mack.  AVell,  I  never  thought  of  it. 

A  Memher.  It  would  not  be  paid  until  after  the  men  liad  separated 
from  the  service  or  become  commissioned  officers  ? 


82  LIFE    INSURAXCE^   ETC.,   FOR    SOLDIERS   AND    SAILORS. 

Judge  Mack.  I  do  not  kiio',v.  That's  a  puzzler.  I  guess  the  bureau 
^YilI  have  to  settle  that. 

A  Me-A[bek.  I  would  like  to  know,  judge.  I  come  from  a  training 
camp,  and  would  want  to  get  to  Avork  right  away. 

Judge  Mack.  You  bring  that  up  again  on  Thursday.  It's  a  very 
good  (luestion. 

INSURANCE. 

The  tliought  underlying  the  insurance  article  was  this,  that  after 
the  loss  of  the  ordinary  income  that  is  compensated  for  by  the  fam- 
ily allowance,  and  the  risk  of  loss  of  life  and  limb  in  the  service 
that  is  compensated  for  by  the  disability  and  death  provisions,  which 
we  have  just  considered,  comes  the  loss  of  present  insurability.  Men 
ought  to  insure  themselves  against  the  inevitable;  vchether  they  do 
or  do  not  is,  of  course,  a  matter  of  their  own  concern.  But  in  ordi- 
nary peace  times  every  man  who  is  fit  to  be  in  the  Army,  or  at  least 
to  enter  the  Army,  can  go  out  and  buy  insairance.  The  result  of  en- 
tering or  being  in  the  service  is  that  he  can  not  buy  insurance.  I 
say  can  not:  I  mean,  practically  speaking;  literally  you  can.  but  at 
a  prohibitive  rate.  From  your  standpoint,  the  rate  is  exorbitant, 
and  therefore  prohibitive,  even  though,  from  the  standpoint  of  the 
insurance  company,  the  rates  may  well  be  entirely  reasonable.  We 
do  not  know  what  the  risk  is  going  to  be;  we  do  not  know  to  what 
extent  the  mortality  or  disability  percentage  is  going  to  be  in- 
creased. It's  really  largely  guesswork,  even  though  we  take  the 
European  experience  as  a  basis;  and  because  of  this  the  insurance 
companies  are  adopting  different  rates.  Some  of  them  absoluteh' 
refuse  to  insure  men  against  this  hazard  at  all.  Others  are  ready 
to  insure  them  at  the  present  time  at  an  additional  rate  of  from 
$37.50  per  $1,000  to  $100  per  $1,000.  That  would  mean  for  you  from 
$375  to  $1,000  a  year  extra  on  $10,000  insurance  over  and  above  the 
ordinary  premium  that  we  civilians  would  pay,  just  because  you  are 
in  the  ser\ice. 

Now,  it  vsas  felt  that  it  is  utterly  wrong  for  the  people  of  this 
count]\v  to  throw  that  burden  upon  the  men  in  the  service,  and  that 
that  at  least  is  a  definite  loss  Avhich  the  Government  can  replace. 
Further,  it  was  believed  that  there  is  only  one  really  adequate  way 
of  replacing  it,  of  making  it  good,  and  that  is  by  giving  back  in 
kind  what  has  been  taken  away,  by  restoring  your  insuraliility  and 
restoring  it  on  at  least  as  good  a  basis  as  the  rest  of  us  had.  The 
only  feasible  way  for  the  Government  of  the  United  States  to  restore 
the  insurability  of  you  men  is  to  sell  7/ou  the  insurance  that  you  could 
have  gotten  in  private  insurance  companies,  and  therefore  that  is 
the  plan  that  was  adopted.  It  Avas  urged  that  the  Government  pay 
this  extra  premium  to  the  private  insurance  companies,  and  the  pri- 
vate insurance  companies  were  ready  to  be  very  fair  and  just  and 
generous  if  that  had  been  considered.  Many  were,  and  I  think  all 
of  thern  v.ould  have  been,  entirely  willijig  that  this  extra  pj-emium 
be  set  aside  as  a  fund,  and  if  there  was  anything  saved  out  of  it  that 
it  should  be  given  back:  but,  on  the  other  hand,  if  it  was  exliausted 
and  m.oi'e  than  exhausted,  tlie  Government  should  pay  the  difference. 
That  would  have  been  one  way  of  handling  the  matter.  The  Govern- 
ment could  have  said  to  you,  "  Take  any  insurance  you  please  in 
any  company  you  please,  and  whatever  extra  premium  is  charged  we 


UFE   IMSURANCE,   ETC.,    FOR    SOLDIERS    AND    SAIEORS.  33 

•will  stand  back  of  yon  for  it."'  Rnt  the  fioveiiiinont  of  the*  Uniltnl 
States  is  not  in  the  habit  of  cairying  its  insnrance  in  private  c<Jin- 
panies;  it  carries  its  own  insni'ance  so  far  as  fire  is  concerned,  and 
there  is  no  reason  why  it  should  not  carry  its  own  insurance  so  far 
as  your  lives  are  concerned. 

Then,  again,  it  was  felt  by  many  that  to  make  such  a  proposition 
would  be  to  give  a  general  Government  indorsement  to  every  insur- 
ance company  or  fraternal  organization  of  which  any  of  you  might 
be  members,  and  the  wisdom  of  the  United  States  Government  setting 
its  stamj)  of  approval  indiscriminately  upon  all  comi>anies  was 
doubted,  because,  while  most  of  the  companies  are  good  and  many  of 
them  excellent,  the  United  States  is  not  ready  to  say  that  it  will  back 
up  every  company. 

No  good  reason  was  apparent  against  the  United  States  itself  di- 
rectly insuring  you  men.  And  there  are  many  reasons  in  favor  of  it. 
You  are  a  limited  class;  but  for  the  war  you  would  be  the  best  class 
of  insurance  risks  that  could  be  found  in  the  world.  The  Govern- 
ment of  the  United  States,  if  it  went  into  the  insurance  business, 
would  not  have  the  number  of  items  of  expense  that  the  private  in- 
surance companies  have.  In  the  first  place,  it  would  not  have  the 
expense  of  commissions  to  agents,  and  that's  a  heavy  item  of  ex])ense, 
because  it  has  been  demonstrated  up  to  now  that  men  will  not  do  the 
sane  and  the  right  thing  for  themselves  and  their  families  by  taking 
out  insurance  in  private  companies  unless  they  are  driven  to  it  hj 
insurance  agents  [laughter] — driven  to  a  realization  of  their  obliga- 
tions to  their  families  and  to  themselves.  But  the  I"'^nited  States 
Government  wlieu  it  oft'ers  you  the  opportunity  to  buy  this  insurance 
at  less  than  peace  rates  does  not  need  any  insurance  agents;  this  op- 
lX)rtunity  is  so  wonderfully  attractive  that  a  man  must  be  a  fool  or 
crazy  and  not  fit  to  be  in  the  service  if  he  does  not  avail  himself  of  it 
to  the  utmost  extent  of  his  financial  ability. 

Then  the  Government  pays  no  taxation ;  it  has  no  medical  exami- 
nation fees  and  medical  inspection  and  supervision,  because  it  is 
going  to  take  you  all  as  3'ou^  are.  There  are  a  few  of  you  Avho  may 
not  be  insural>le.  Some  who  have  been  in  the  service  a  long  time 
might  not  be  able  to  pass  an  examination  noAv ;  and  yet,  compara- 
tively, their  number  is  so  small  that  it  is  a  negligible  quantity  when 
you  consider  the  million  or  two  million  or  more  possil>le  risks.  The 
great  nuiss  has  just  undergone  a  careful  medical  examination.  They 
would  not  be  in  the  service  if  they  were  not  insurable,  and  so  the 
(lovernmcnt  does  not  need  to  incur  the  expense  of  medical  exami- 
nations. 

And  then  the  Government  need  not  advertise  or  look  for  invest- 
ments and  employ  high-]»riced  and  high -salaried  men  to  conduct  its 
business,  (irovernment  salaries,  as  you  know,  are  ludicrously  small. 
Men  work  for  the  Government  at  a  quarter  to  a  tenth  of  what  they 
could  get  in  private  life  for  the  same  amount  of  work  with  the  same 
ability.  That  is  one  of  the  advantages  the  Government  has,  because 
it  is  the  Government  and  because  men  are  patriotic  or  want  the 
honor  and  are  ready  to  serve  the  (lovernment  for  so  much  less.  And 
so  the  only  expense  that  the  (xovernment  has  is  that  of  the  actual 
administration  of  this  insurance  ollice:  and  as  this  insurarice  is  lim- 
ited to  our  fighting  forces,  it  seemed  only  right  and  proper  that  the 
lOSOS"— 17 3 


34  LIFE    INSURANCE,   ETC.,   FOB    SOLDIERS   AND   SAILORS. 

cost  of  tulniinistering  it  should  not  be  charged  up  to  the  men,  but 
shoukl  be  deemed  a  general  governmental  war  expense.  When  that 
^Tas  once  decided,  it  followed  that  the  Government  could  well  afford 
to  sell  this  insurance  not  merely  at  peace-time  rates,  but  at  peace- 
time rates  less  the  loading  which  private  companies  add  for  expenses 
and  emergencies.  Now,  this  so-called  loading  runs  from  20  per  cent 
to  35  per  cent  of  the  amount  that  would  otherwise  be  charged,  and 
therefore,  if  you  deduct  this,  the  Government  could  afford  to  sell  its 
insurance 'from,  say,  20  to  30  per  cent  less  than  the  private  companies 
would  charge.  That  is  quite  an  item  in  the  premium,  and  that  is 
what  Congress  decided  to  do. 

Tlien  came  the  question  what  kind  of  insurance  should  the  Gov- 
ernment sell.  Should  it  sell  every  kind  that  the  private  companies 
are  selling  or  not?  There  are  many  reasons,  dependent  upon  the 
particular  circumstances  of  the  individual,  that  would  lead  him  to 
take,  at  some  particular  time  of  his  life,  some  one  or  the  other  of  the 
many  forms  of  insurance  that  are  offered,  and  there  are  very  valid 
arguments  that  are  urged  by  the  insurance  agents  in  support  of  tho 
one  or  the  other  kind  of  insurance,  as  being  the  best  kind  for  the  par- 
ticular individual  at  any  particular  period  of  his  life. 

Now-,  let  me  illustrate:  A  young  man  unmarried  feels  that  lie 
w-ants  to  have  something  substantial  at  the  end  of  20  years.  He  says 
"  I  do  not  want  to  pay  out  ail  my  money  just  for  the  insurance  pro- 
tection alone  as  I  pay  my  fire-insurance  premiums.  I  want  part  of 
it  to  be  a  saving."  Welt,  the  man  that  feels  that  way  will  take,  wo 
will  say,  a  20,  25,  or  30  year  endowment  policy.  If  he  takes  out* 
$10,000  of  that  kind  of  insurance,  then  at  the  end  of  that  time  he  will 
get  the  $10,000.  He  has  created  this  fund  for  his  subsequent  use. 
The  other  young  man  is  married.  He  says,  "  I  want  to  protect  mj 
family  more  than  myself.  I  do  not  want  that  money,  I  want  my 
family  to  haA-e  the  $10,000  when  I  die.  I  want  to  get  it  for  as  littla 
money  as  I  can,  but  I  want  to  get  done  paying  for  it  in  20  years." 
That* man  will  take  a  20-payment  life  policy.  And  another  man 
says,  "  I  want  to  pay  still  less.  I  can  do  it  by  paying  all  my  life, 
instead  of  for  only  iO,  15,  or  20  years.  I  know  tliat  I  will  alway? 
have  enough  to  keep  this  up,  but  I  don't  want  to  pay  in  so  much  as  a 
20-paymont  life  will  cost,  and  I  will  take  an  ordinary  life." 

Well,  then,  another  man  says,  "I  need  as  much  insurance  as  I 
can  possibly  get  for  the  money  that  I  can  afford  to  spare  during  tho 
next  five  years.  I  want  the  cheapest  safe  insurance  that  I  can  get. 
I  am  just  about  to  go  into  business.  I  can' not  see  ro.y  way  clear  for 
the  next  five  years.  If  I  sliould  die  during  that  time,  it  is  going  to  be 
very  disastrous  for  my  family.  I  need  every  penny  that  I  can  spare 
to  put  into  my  business  during  these  next  five  years,  and  yet  this 
is  the  time  of  all  times  when  I  need  all  the  insurance  that  I  can  get. 
Now,  after  five  years  either  I  will  be  down  and  out  or  I  will  be 
prosperous,  and  then  I  can  afford  to  take  better  insurance."  Well, 
now^,  that  kind  of  a  man  if  he  is  properly  advised  by  the  insurance 
agent,  will  take  what  is  called  a  five-year  convertible  term  policy. 
He  will  take  a  policy  that  costs  him  very  little  during  those  five 
years,  but  that  will  give  him  the  right  or  perhaps  v.  ill  compel  him 
at  the  end  of  five  years  to  convert  it  into  something  else  that  is  more 
permanent  in  its  character.     During  those  five  years  he  must  ge^ 


LIFE   INSUILVNCE,   ETC.,   FOR   SOLDIERS   AND   SAILORS.  35 

all  he  can  for  his  money.  It  is  a  partic-ularly  hazaivlons  time  for 
him.  Suppose,  again,  that  he  is  going  into  an  occupation  that  is 
particularly  risky,  and  (hat  he  knows  is  not  goijig  to  last  more  than 
that  time.  He  says  to  himself,  "This  is  a  very  risky  job  that  I  am 
going  into.  1  would  be  a  fool  if  I  did  not  take  the  very  cheapest 
kind  of  safe  insurance,  because  it  will  bring  mo  just  as  much,  if  I  die 
during  this  period  of  extra  hazard,  and  then  when  the  period  of 
extra  hazard  is  over  and  when  I  am  in  a  normal  situation,  I  will  tak« 
the  kind  of  insurance  that  is  best  suited  to  my  then  circumstances, 
something  that  will  not  corn-pel  me  to  pay  money  all  my  life." 

The  kind  of  insurance  that  man  would  take  is  what  is  called  a 
five-year  convertilde  term  or  a  five-year  renewable  term.  Let  mo 
explain  tlie  word  "  term.''  Straight  term  insurance  is  something  like 
fire  insurance — you  are  insured  for  a  term,  and  when  that  term  is 
over  you  are  not  insured.  Now,  if  you  were  to  take  insurance  for 
a  term  of  years,  and  at  the  end  of  that  term  you  were  down  and 
out  and  had  no  insurance,  you  would  be  taking  a  very  foolish  kind 
of  a  policy,  unless  it  were  a  case  where  you  had  to  protect  some- 
body for  five  years,  and  you  were  absolutely  certain  you  would  not 
neod  the  protection  after  that  time.  But,  of  course,  that  is  a  very  rare 
case.  Most  men,  if  they  want  to  take  a  term  insurance,  want  to  fake 
something  that  will  be  very  cheap  for  the  term,  but  which  after  that 
time  will  enable  them  to  go  on  with  some  other  kind  of  insurance. 
That  is  called  renewable  or  convertible  term  insurance — insurance 
companies  issue  it.  '\Miile  it  is  like  straight-term  or  like  fire  insur- 
ance, it  difi'ers  in  one  very  important  respect,  that  you  can  keep  up 
the  insurance  as  long  as  you  li\e;  the  company  can  not  say  at  the  end 
of  tlie  year,  "  We  will  not  renew  your  policy."  But  it'  is  like  firo 
insurance  in  this:  Wlien  you  go  into  a  fire  insurance  com})any  you 
pay  your  premium  for  a  year;  if  your  house  burns  in  that  year,  yon 
get  your  insurance  money;  if  your  house  does  not  burn  in  that  year, 
you  are  lucky;  but  at  the  end  of  the  year  you  have  nothing;  yoiir  in- 
surance is  clone  for  and  you  do  not  get  anything  back.*  Why? 
Becaus-e  the  premium  that  you  paid  is  the  cost  plus  whatever  profit 
there  may  be — the  cost  of  that  risk  during  that  one  3'ear.  Xow,  terui 
insurance  is  like  that,  too.  At  the  end  of  the  yoai-  you  are  lucln-  if 
you  have  not  died.  You  have  paid  the  cost  of  carrying  you  during 
that  year. 

Suppose,  for  instance,  that  there  were  a  thousand  men  aged  20 
that  banded  together,  and  thev  said,  "  Xovr,  we  want  to  protect  our- 
selves against  death  during  t\us  next  year;  what  w^ill  it  cost  us?^ 
Well,  if  tliey  turn  to  the  sort  of  tables  tliat  are  used  by  the  American 
insurance  companies,  and  thai  arc  called  the  American  Expericrioe 
Table  of  Mortality,  they  would  find  (hat,  out  of  a  thousand  men  aged 
29  living  at  the  beginning  of  the  year,  in  the  long  run  and  on  the 
average  about  eiglit  of  those  men  would  die  during  the  year.  AVell, 
now.  if  they  were  to  chip  in,  each  of  them  taking  out  $1,000  worth  of 
insurance,  the  eight  who  died  would  have  to  get  $8,000  from  the  1,000 
men.  That  woidd  mean  that  each  man  would  have  to  pay  $S,  and 
that  would  I. ring  the  $8,000.  The  fellows  that  die  would  get  their 
$1,000  jipiece,  the  eight  of  them,  and  tiio.^^  that  live  would  have 
nothing  at  the  end  of  the  year.  The  next  year  ihev  would  begin  over 
again.     JSow  those  men  are  oO  years  of  age,  and,  instead  of  eight 


36  LIFE   INSURANCE,    ETC.,   FOR    SOLDIERS   AND    SAILORS. 

dying,  the  percentage  would  be,  we  will  say,  eight  and  one-qnarter,  and 
for  that  reason  they  would  have  to  pay  $8.25  apiece  to  make  up  the 
amount ;  and  so,  of  coui-se,  as  they  grow  older  tlie  chances  of  dying 
are  greater.  The  number  that  AAould  die  each  year  is  greater;  and 
therefore,  paying  in  the  amount  that  each  would  have  to  contribute 
to  make  up  the  death  losses  that  are  expected,  the  expense  or  pre- 
mium would  grow  lioaA'ier'and  heavier  as  they  grew  older. 

Most  of  3^ou  would  be  surprised  at  the  proportion  of  men  who  live 
to  a  real  old  age;  the  United  States  Life  Tables,  1910,  show  that  40 
per  cent  of  men  20  years  of  age  live  to  70.  Those  are  the  figures  that 
are  given  in  the  United  States  tables.  Infant  mortality  is  very  high. 
A  large  percentage  die  the  first  five  years;  a  fair  percentage  the  first 
10  3'ears:  a  very  small  percentage  the  next  10  or  20  years;  then  the 
percentage  goes  up  higher,  and  yet  at  the  end  of  TO  years  31  per  cent 
of  males  born  survive;  this  equals  40  per  cent  of  those  who  reach  the 
jige  of  20.  Then  they  begin  to  die  ofi'  quickly.  And  so  when  you 
come  to  real  old  age,  the  cost  of  term  insurance  becomes  tremendous 
and  is  a  terrible  burden.  Now,  it  is  very  unwise  for  men  to  take  out 
insurance  that  costs  them  a  very  few  cents  when  they  are  young  but 
an  excessively  burdensome  amount  when  they  are  old,  and  are  least 
able  in  all  probabilit}'^  to  pay  it.  And  therefore  it  is  very  unwise  for 
men  to  take  out  renewable  term  insurance  as  a  permanent  thing. 

It  has  no  paid-up  value;  if  premiums  are  not  paid  it  is  not  kept 
up  and  the  insurance  is  not  extended.  Now,  that  is  the  principal 
and  the  best  reason  why  insurance  companies  and  insurance  agents 
do  not  advise  men  to  take  yearly  rene warble  term  insurance,  con- 
tinuous for  the  man's  life.  But  there  are  companies  that  issue  it. 
Other's  change  it  a  little;  instead  of  the  premiums  going  up  each 
year  they  increase  each  5  years  or  each  10  years.  Now  then,  let  us 
consider  the  two  propositions  that  I  have  tried  to  state:  First,  that 
it  is  a  bad  thing  for  a  man  to  take  out  yearly  renewable  term  in- 
surance with  the  intention  of  keeping  it  up  for  his  life,  because  when 
he  gets  old  it  is  going  to  be  difficult  for  the  avei-age  man  to  keep  it 
up;  second,  that  if  a  man  is  going  into  an  extra  hazardous  occupa- 
tion for  a  short  period  he  would  be  extremely  foolish  if  he  did  not 
take  the  very  cheapest  kind  of  insurance  he  could  get,  provided  only 
that  after  the  hazardous  period  is  over  he  has  the  right  to  change  it 
ijito  some  one  or  other  of  the  forms  best  suited  to  his  circumstances. 

Now,  the  kind  of  insurance  that  the  United  States  Government  is 
issuing  is  based  upon  the  validity  of  those  two  statem.ents.  The  mili- 
tary and  naval  forces  are  going  into  an  extra  hazardous  occupation. 
That  is  evidenced  by  the  fact  that  the  insurance  companies  are  chai-g- 
ing  them  the  heavy  extra  premiums.  They  would  be  foolish  during 
that  period  of  extra  hazard  if  they  took  anything  ])ut  the  very  cheapest 
insurance  that  they  could  possibly  get.  The  United  States  in  issuing 
this  insurance  is  not  trying  to  make  money  out  of  the  boys;  it  is  not 
trying  to  do  jjomething  for  its  own  good.  It  is  trying  to  do  the  b?st 
it  can  for  them.  Tlierefore  it  was  felt  that  the  United  States  should 
issue  only  that  insurance  v.-hJch  is  most  desirable  for  the  men.  And 
therefore  it  is  provided  in  this  bill  that  during  the  period  of  the  war 
the  only  kind  of  insurance  that  tlie  T'nited  States  Government  Avill 
issue  to  you  is  this  so-called  yearly  renewable  term  insuranc<\  the 
cheapest  possible  insurance  that  you  can  get.  But  it  would  be  equally 
wrong  for  the  United  States  to  tempt  you  into  keeping  up  the  kind 


UFE   INSURANCE,   ETC.,    FOR    SOLDIERS    AND    SAILORS.  37 

of  insiii'jince  wliicli  for  the  gi;';it  mass  of  the  men  in  the  service — 
of  course,  there  are  exceptions,  hut  we  have  got  to  go  by  the  great 
mass — would  become  impossible  to  carry  when  they  reached  old  age 
and  would  therefore  be  nothing  but  a  snare  to  them.  And  therefore 
it  is  provided  that  while  the  United  States  will  sell  only  this  cheapest 
kind  of  insurance  during  the  war,  and  while  it  will  permit  you  to  keep 
it  up,  if  you  want  to,  for  live  years  after  the  war,  so  that  you  will  have 
plenty  of  time  to  consider  what  is  best  for  you  as  a  permanent  policy, 
when  those  five  years  ai-e  o\er,  or  earlier  if  you  want  to,  you  must 
change  that  insurance  into  one  of  the  more  permanent  forms.  It  will 
cost  you  more  of  course,  but  whatever  it  costs  you  you  will  more 
than  get  vour  mone3'^'s  worth. 

And  what  is  this  renewable  term  and  this  converted  insurance 
going  to  cost  3'^ou?  Let  me  explain  the  method  of  determining 
premium  rates.  All  insurance  premiums  are  based  upon  this  term 
insurance.  If  3'ou  take  what  is  called  an  ordinary  life  policy,  you 
do  not  pay  a  premium  which  increases  each  year,  but  if  you  were  to 
live  out  your  full  expectation  of  life  3'ou  would  be  doing  the  equiva- 
lent thing.  Instead  of  the  yearly  increasing  term  rate,  the  company 
charges  you  the  same  amount  ever}-  3'ear.  But  hoAv  do  thoy  arrive 
at  the  amount  that  they  ought  to  charge  you?  By  a  pure  mathe- 
matical calculation.  An  average  premium  is  arriAcd  at  due  to  the 
fact  that  those  dying  young  will  pay  few  premiums  and  those  living 
long  Avill  ])ay  man3\  Of  course,  the  result  of  that  is  that  when  you 
pay  exactly  the  same  premium  in  j'outh  and  in  old  age,  jou  are 
})aying  more  than  the  insurance  costs  at  the  earlier  period  and  less 
than  the  insurance  costs  at  the  later  period.  Now\  if  you  want  to 
cut  your  premium  pa^'^ments  down  so  that  j^ou  will  pay  them  for 
only  20  years,  a  similar  mathematical  conversion  is  made.  Instead 
of  paying  every  j-ear  of  3'our  life  so  and  so  much,  3''ou  concentrate 
the  pa3-ments  in  the  first  20  3'ears  of  3'our  life,  pa3'ing  more  during 
each  one  of  those  20  3"ears  than  if  you  paid  during  each  of.  sa}'',  40 
years.  It  is  all  calculated  out  to  a  pennv'  on  the  basis  of  the  Ameri- 
can Experience  l^ible  of  Moi-talit3'  and  on  the  basis  of  niomn'  bring- 
ing a  certain  income.  In  some  companies  3  i)er  cent  is  the  basis,  in 
most  companies  34  per  cent,  and  in  a  few  companies  -i  per  cent.  The 
United  States  Government  selected  34  per  cent  because  that  is  the 
rate  of  most  of  the  companies  and  because  at  the  time  the  bill  was 
drawn  the  Libert3'^  Loan  brought  34  per  cent. 

Now,  what  is  the  result?  The  exact  figures  that  the  insurance 
companies  use  as  their  basis  in  determining  the  ])remiums  have  been 
adopted.  But  the  Government  has  not  added  the  loading  for  ex- 
pense and  safet\^  margin  that  tlK\v  add.  It  has  taken  the  true,  the 
natural  i)remium,  based  on  exactlj-  what  the  insurance  companies 
base  their  premiums  on,  the  American  Experience  Table  of  Mor- 
talitv^  and  a  34  per  cent  interest  rate.  The  premiiuns  are  determined 
according  to  the  age  at  nearest  birthday.  In  Bulletin  Xo.  1  3'ou  will 
find  the  jnemiums  for  each  age. 

Now,  there  is  nothing  remarkable  about  the  figures  being  so  low; 
there  is  nothing  remarkalde  about  our  statement  that  this  insurance 
costs  a  man  aged  20  about  Ji<8  per  thousand  per  3'ear.  Life  insurance 
companies  could  sell  it  for  that  but  for  the  Jr^2.50  or  $3  added  for 


38  LIFE    INSURANCE,   ETC.,   FOR   SOLDIERS   AND   SAILORS. 

oxj^enscs.  But  ordinarily  yon  do  not  'near  about  this  kind  of  insur- 
ance, and  for  the  reasons  that  I  have  stated  ordinarily  it  is  VvtvU  that 
you  should  not  hear  about  it.  In  tliis  particular  crisis,  however,  it 
is  a  great  thing  for  you  that  the  United  States  Goveioiinent  decided 
to  sell  you  only  what  is  best  and  cheapest  for  you,  and  then  to  make 
you  convert  it  witliin  fi^e  years  after  the  war  into  one  of  the  more 
permanent  foi-ms  if  you  want  to  keep  it  up. 

In  an  insurance  contract  you  never  bind  yourself  to  anything.  It 
is  the  company  that  binds  itself.  It  is  the  United  States  Government 
in  this  case  that  is  bound.  You  are  under  no  obligations  at  all.  You 
can  take  this  insurance,  or  you  can  decline  to  take  it;  3^ou  can  keep  it 
up  or  you  can  drop  it;  moreover,  you  can  drop  it  any  month  you 
please,  because,  while  the  premium  is  based  on  yearly  renewable 
rates,  really  it  is  monthly  renewable  insurance.  You  are  insured 
from  month  to  month.  Any  month  that  you  want  to  stop  you  need 
only  say  to  the  Government,  "  I  do  not  want  to  keep  up  my  insurance 
any  more,"  and  automatically  you  are  released.  The  Government 
does  not  care.  If  you  think  you  can  carry  the  risk  yourself,  well 
and  good.  There  is  no  compulsion  about  it.  The  Government  lias 
given  you  the  opportunity  that  the  war  deprived  you  of.  It  is  up 
to  j'ou  to  say  whether  you  want  to  take  advantage  of  it.  It  is  not 
giving  you  the  insurance,  because  it  did  not  take  insurance  av^'aj 
from  3'ou.  It  is  giving  you  the  insurability,  because  the  war  did 
take  3^our  insurability  away  from  you.  But  if  you  do  not  want  t& 
avail  yourself  of  your  now  new  insurability,  that  is  your  privilege. 
It  is  only  right  and  proper  that  you  should  have  a  limited  time 
within  which  to  make  up  your  mind,  and  the  law  fixes  that  limited 
time  at  120  days.  You  can  decide  during  the  120  daj^s  vrhether  or 
not  you  want  to  buy  the  insurance.  If  you  indicate  that  you  want 
it,  well  and  good;  it  will  be  issued  to  you.  Then,  as  I  say,  you  caa 
give  it  up  \\-henever  you  please,  the  whole  or  any  part  of  it.  You 
can  keep  it  up  for  life  or  during  the  war;  after  the  war  you  can 
keep  up  the  term  insurance  for  five  years  and  then  convert  it,  or 
you  can  drop  it  at  any  time;  at  the  end  of  the  five  years,  you  can  con- 
vert it,  or  if  you  do  not  want  to  convert  it,  you  can  give  it  up.  But 
unless  you  take  it  during  the  120  days  you  won't  get  it  at  all.  Unless 
you  take  all  that  you  want  up  to  $10,000  during  the  120  days,  you 
can  not  increase  it  after  that;  you  can  decrease  it,  but  you  can  not 
increase  it.    You  must  fix  your  limit  during  the  120  days. 

The  law  is  thoroughly  democratic.  Some  of  you  might  want 
$100,000  insurance,  but  it  would  not  be  fair  and  just  for  the  Govern- 
ment to  give  you  that.  The  Government  can  only  give  you  a 
reasonable  measure  of  protection,  and  Congress  finally  decided  in 
accordance  with  the  original  suggestion,  strongly  urged  by  Pres- 
ident Wilson,  that  $10,000  of  insurance  was  a  resonable  measure 
of  protection.  Every  man  and  woman  in  the  service,  officers  and 
men,  are  entitled  to  this  service  in  equal  measure.  It  is  tiTie  that 
the  average  American  policy  is  only  $1,800,  and  it  is  likewise  true 
that  the  average  young  man  fails  to  take  any  insurance.  But  no- 
body knows  what  he  might  have  done,  particularly  in  view  of  the 
war,  and  it  is  but  reasonable  and  just  that  the  people  of  the  United 
Stat^iS  should  give  him  this  chance.     He  is  a  free  American  citizen 


LIFE   INSURANCE,   ETC.,   FOR   SOLDIERS  AND  SAILORS.  39 

and  it  is  up  to  him  to  decide  what  use  he  wants  to  make  of  the  oppor- 
tunity. But  it  is  democratic  in  this;  the  right  to  buy  up  to  $10,<X)0 
insurajice  is  not  only  fj:ranted  to  all  alike,  but  every  private  can 
afford  to  buy  the  limit,  if  he  so  desires. 

It  was  felt  that  the  insurance  of  this  kind  ought  not  to  be  the 
subject  matter  of  speculation.  Therefore,  these  policies,  unlike  the 
])olicies  issued  by  private  companies,  are  not  assignable.  Other  peo- 
jde  can  not  take  out  this  insurance  on  your  life  and  jnake  a  specula- 
tion out  of  it  after  your  death.  Your  creditors  can  not  touch  it  any 
more  than  they  can  touch  your  pay.  It  is  given  that  special  protec- 
tion. Further  than  that,  inasmuch  as  a  man  can  so  arrange  his  pri- 
vate insuranc<3  that  it  will  go  to  his  wife  and  children  free  from  the 
claims  of  creditors,  it  is  specilically  provided  in  this  bill  that  the 
creditors  of  the  beneficiaries  can  not  attach  it.  And  thus  it  is  a  pecu- 
liarly protected  kind  of  property  for  you  and  for  them. 

In  line  with  this  idea  that  it  should  not  be  assignable  or  speculative, 
the  law  six>cifically  provides  that  it  can  be  payable  only  to  certain 
classes  of  beneficiaries,  Avife,  hu.sband,  child,  gi'andchild,  parent, 
brother,  or  sister;  nobody  else.  But  the  definitions  of  section  22  ap- 
ply here.  too.  Personally,  I  think  that  is  too  narrow.  As  the  bill 
passed  the  House  of  Representatives  it  provided  that  the  bureau 
Avould  have  the  right  to  extend  the  classes  of  beneficiaries.  The  Sen- 
ate struck  this  out  I  think  that  is  a  defect  in  the  bill,  a  defect 
"which  I  hope  may  be  coirected  in  the  future. 

Now,  even  the  permitted  class  of  beneficiaries  can  not  speculate  on 
your  Kfe.  If  a  wealthy  brother  pay  the  other  brother's  premium, 
he  gets  no  vested  rights  because  the  insured  has  the  absolute  right  at 
any  and  ail  times  to  change  the  beneficiary,  cutting  out  one  member 
of  the  class  and  putting  in  some  other.  He  can  not  go  beyond  the 
permitt^id  class,  but  he  can  change  within  that  class  just  as  he  pleases. 

Then,  another  provision  that  the  Government  generously  added: 
While  it  based  the  premiums  upon  these  extremely  low  term  rates, 
it  added  this  provision  that  not  only  on  a  man's  death  should  the 
policy  mature,  but  also  on  his  becoming  totally  and  permanently  dis- 
abled. This  nas  nothing  at  all  to  do  with  the  compensation  pro- 
vision. You  pay  notliing  for  that.  Tlie  compensation  is  given  only 
if  the  injuries  are  rex^eived  in  the  line  of  duty.  Your  insurance 
agains-t  total  disability  or  death  is  against  total  disability  or  death, 
no  matter  how  it  arises  or  when  it  arises,  whether  in  the  service  or 
out  of  the  service,  because  of  the  service  or  not  because  of  the 
service.  It  is  like  insurance  in  any  private  company  and  covers  all 
contingencies.  But,  as  I  say,  added  to  the  life  insurance,  the  Gov- 
ernment throws  in  for  good  measure  the  provision  that  if  before 
death  you  become  totally  and  permanently  disabled,  the  policy  will 
then  become  due. 

Now,  in  its  solicitude  for  the  men  and  for  the  familii-s,  and  act- 
ing— and  properly  actinp; — in  a  somewhat  paternal  manner,  the  Gov- 
ernment has  provided  that  you  can  not  get  this  insurance  paid  out 
in  a  lump  sum,  and  that  your  family  can  not  get  this  insurance  paid 
out  in  a  lump  sum.  It  is  not  only  free  from  creditors,  but  it  is  going 
to  be  paid  out  only  in  monthly  installments  over  a  period  of  20  years, 
which  means  240  monthly  installments.     If,  however,  you  become 


4©  LIFE    INSURANCE,   ETC.,   FOR    SOLDIERS   AND    SAILORS. 

totally  disabled  and  tho  total  disability  coiitiniios  more  than  20 
years,  the  same  monthly  installments  will  be  kept  up  for  you  as  long 
as  the  disability  continues. 

As  to  your  wife  and  children  and  the  other  beneficiaries,  these 
payments  cease  at  the  end  of  the  '20  years-  You  or  they  can,  however, 
arrange  that  instead  of  240  installments  of  $57.50  per  month  (because 
that  is  what  a  $10,000  policy  is  converted  into)  there  shall  be  240  in- 
stallments certain,  and  they  shall  continue  as  much  longer  as  the  wife 
or  child  may  live;  but  in  that  event  the  amount  of  each  installment 
is  cut  down,  dependent  upon  the  age  of  the  m  ife  or  the  child  or  who- 
ever the  beneficiary  may  be  at  the  time  of  your  death.  All  of  that, 
however,  will  be  figured  out  just  as  private  insurance  companies 
figure  it  out. 

The  installments  are  calculated  on  a  3-|-  per  cent  interest  basis. 
That  may  seem  pretty  low  to  some  of  you  who  may  be  accustomed 
to  getting  6,  7,  and  8  per  cent  in  the  western  country.  But  the  United 
States  Government  is  not  in  a  speculative  business.  It  can  not  expect 
to  get  more  for  its  money  than  3^  per  cent,  although,  of  course,  just 
now  it  is  paying  4  per  cent  on  the  new  liberty  loan ;  but  that  was  a 
fair,  conservative  basis.  And  any  man  can  well  afford  to  leave  with 
the  United  States  Government,  the  safest  debtor  on  the  face  of  the 
earth,  some  part  of  his  money  for  the  protection  of  his  family,  even 
though  that  debtor  pays  only  3J  per  cent  interest,  instead  of  taking 
the  chances  that  his  wife  and  child  will  speculate  with  his  money  in 
the  hope  of  getting  a  larger  rate  of  interest. 

There  is  one  other  provision  that  I  must  call  your  attention  to; 
it  is  a  little  difficult  to  explain,  and  yet  I  must  try  to  explain  it 
clearly  because  it  is  in  the  blank  applications,  and  it  is  due  to  a  little 
slip  in  the  law.  You  will  find  in  the  application  blanks  at  one  place 
in  heavy  type,  "  Strike  out  whichever  is  not  wanted,''  and  just  before 
that  is, ""Date  of  signature  or  February  12,  1918."  Now  here  is  the 
situation :  It  was  felt,  and  this  suggestion  came  directly  from  the 
Secretary  of  the  Treasury — it  was  felt  that  the  men  who  should  have 
become  totally  disabled  before  this  law  was  passed,  ought,  to  some 
extent  at  least,  to  be  put  in  the  position  of  the  boys  Avho  are  now  in 
the  service.  And  so  it  was  suggested  that  they  be  given  some  amount 
that  would  be  a  fair  average  of  the  insurance  that  could  be  taken  out, 
It  was  finally  decided  that  any  man  who  had  been  killed  or  had  be- 
come totally  and  permanently  disabled  before  this  law  Avent  into  effect 
should  be  considered  as  if  he  had  taken  out  insurance  which  couA-erted 
into  installments  Avould  brinsr  $25  a  month. 

Now.  $10,000  brings  $57.50  a  month;  on  tliat  basis  $4,500  would 
bring  $25.88  a  month,  therefore  $25  a  month  is  the  equivalent  of 
something  less  than  $4,500,  and  something  more  than  $4,000.  In 
other  words,  if  a  man  took  a  policy  for  $4,000  his  family  would  be 
paid  at  the  rate  of  $23  a  month,  and  if  he  took  a  policy  for  $4,500 
his  family  would  be  paid  at  the  rate  of  $25.88  a  month,  and  if  he 
didn't  take  out  any  policy  at  all,  but  died  or  became  totally  disabled 
before  this  laAv  Avent  into  effect,  the  GoA-ernment  gives  them  or  him 
$25  a  month.  But  moj-e  than  this;  you  have  120  days  from  the  time 
that  the  terms  and  conditions  of  the  policy  Avere  promulgated,  Oc- 
tober lo.  That  is  imtil  February  12,  1918,  to  make  up  3'our  mind 
Avhether  you  Avant  to  insure,  and  if  so,  for  Avhat  amount.     If  3'ou 


LIFE   INSURANCE,   ETC.,   FOR    SOLDIERS    AND    SAILORS,  41 

should  (lie  or  become  totally  and  permanently  disabled  while  yoii 
have  this  option  and  before  applying;  for  the  insurance,  you  or  tliey 
will  likewise  get  the  $25  a  month.  But  now  the  unfortunate  slij)  in 
the  wording  of  the  law  was  in  tlie  use  of  the  expression,  "without 
having  applied  for  the  insurance." 

Now,  suppose  you  had  ai)i)lied  for  $1,000  worth  of  insurance,  inas- 
much as  you  Avould  have  applied  for  insurance,  you  would  have  cut 
yourself  out  of  that  $25  per  month,  even  though  the  $1,000  insurance 
would  bi'ing  only  $5.75  per  month.  That  would  be  very  foolish,  and 
therefore  the  bureau  would  have  pi-eferred  to  say  that  if  you  ai)ply 
for  less  than  $-1,500  it  would  in  every  case  regard  it  as  an  application 
not  for  an  immediate  policy,  but  for  a  policy  to  be  issued  on  February 
12,  the  last  day  on  which  you  could  apply.  In  this  way  you  would 
have  been  fully  protected.  P)Ut  there  was  this  one  obstacle:  The  $25 
that  the  Government  gives  the  man  who  does  not  take  insurance  is 
payable  to  the  man  himself  as  long  as  his  disability  lasts,  but  if  he 
dies  the  class  of  people  to  whom  it  goes  is  still  more  restricted:  only 
his  wife,  his  child,  or  his  widowed  mother  can  get  it.  Now,  suppose 
he  has  no  Avife.  child,  or  widowed  mother;  suppose  he  has  a  father 
or  a  mother  and  a  father  and  he  would  like  them  to  ^ret  the  benefit 
of  the  insurance.  If  he  aj)plies  for  insurance  and  maUes  it  payal)lc 
to  them,  tlie}^  will  get  it.  If  he  does  not  apply  for  immediate  insur- 
ance, they  can  not,  in  any  case,  get  the  $25.  Suppose  he  applies  for 
$1,000  worth  of  insurance ;  here  is  his  dilemma,  due  to  this  little  slip  in 
the  law\  He  has  applied  for  insurance,  and  therefore  he  can  not  get 
that  $25  per  m.onth  if  he  is  totally  disabled.  A  thousand  dollars 
insurance  brings  him,  hoAvever,  only  $5.75  per  month.  Therefore  if 
his  application  is  to  be  effective  right  now  he  avouKI  get  only  $5.75 
instead  of  $25  per  month  should  he  become  totally  disabled  before 
I'ebruary  12,  but  at  his  death  his  parents  Avould  get  $5.75  per  month, 
whereas  if  his  application  is  to  be  effective  only  on  February  12  he 
would  get  $25  per  month  during  his  disability ;  but,  on  the  other  hand. 
if  he  died  his  parents  would  get  nothing.  Now,  there  you  are.  There  is 
the  dilemnui.  The  man  must  choose  the  lesser  of  the  two  evils;  the 
bureau  can  not  choose  for  him. 

There  is.  hoAvever,  a  Avay  to  avoid  this  dilemma  by  taking  at  least 
$4,500  of  insurance;  and  that  is  the  thing  for  him  to  do.  because  even 
if  he  does  not  Avant  to  keep  it  up  after  February  12.  he  can  drop  any 
part  of  it  that  he  pleases:  and  rather  than  lose  or  run  the  risk  of 
losing  something  by  death  or  total  disability  betAveen  noAv  and  Feb- 
ruary 12.  the  Avise  thing  for  him  to  do,  even  if  he  Avants  only  $2,000 
permanently,  is  to  make  his  application  for  $4,500  noAv.  He  can  not 
lose  much  by  it,  anyway,  because  the  Avhole  cost,  at  age  20,  for  $5,000 
is  only  $3.45  a  month.  Then  he  and  his  family  are  jn-otected  against 
all  contingencies.  Personally  I  think  that  if  a  man  insists  on  taking 
less  than  $4,000  he  Avould  better  strike  out  ''Date  of  signature"  and 
lea  AT  in  "'  February  12.  1018  "  :  if  he  then  becomes  totalh"  disabled  be- 
fore February  12.  he  will  got  the  $25.  Of  course,  if  he  dies  Ix^fore  that 
date,  he  cuts  out  his  father  or  married  mother.  But  it  is  up  to  him: 
he  must  make  up  his  mind,  and  the  best  decision  is  to  take  at  least 
$4,500  of  the  insurance.  In  that  case  he  does  not  have  to  ansAver  that 
question,  because,  as  you  see  in  that  application,  in  that  eAcnt  the 
application  states  that  it  is  to  be  effective  at  once.     But  if  it  is  for 


42  LIFE    INSURANCE,   ETC.,   FOR   SOLDIERS   AND    SAILOBS. 

less  tlian  $4,500,  and  in  favor  of  a  wife,  child,  or  widowed  mother,  it 
is  to  his  interest  to  have  the  new  insurance  date  from  February  12, 
because  in  that  case  he,  his  wife,  child,  or  widowed  mother  would  all 
be  better  protected  with  the  $25  monthly  in  case  of  death  or  disability 
before  that  date. 

A  Member.  Judge,  that  is  rather  complicated,  and  it  is  rather  hard 
for  us  to  understand.  Does  not  your  ingenuity  prompt  you  to  put 
some  sort  of  clause  there  that  will  waive  all  this? 

Judge  Mack,  Not  only  have  I  tried,  but  a  half  dozen  of  the  best 
actuaries  of  the  country  liaA'e  tried.  We  can  not.  I  want  to  say  that 
this  bulletin  of  the  terms  and  conditions  of  the  contract  of  insurance 
has  gone  through  the  hands  of  some  of  the  most  experienced  actua- 
ries of  the  country,  both  in  cooperation  with  me  and  subsequently  in 
criticism.  I  must  confess  a  slip  in  omitting  a  word  or  two  in  thelaw 
that  would  have  obviated  it;  but  until  Congress  meets  again  tho 
law  can  not  be  changed,  and  even  then  it  will  be  difficult  to  get  an 
amendment  through  right  away.  As  the  law  now  stands,  the  situa- 
tion is  as  I  have  explained  to  you.  If  a  man  wants  less  than  $4,500 
insurance,  and  if  he  wants  the  beneficiaries  to  be  other  than  wife, 
child,  or  widowed  mother,  he  is  up  against  a  dilemma  because  of  the 
generosity  of  the  Government  in  giving  him  som.ething  for  nothing, 
in  case  he  becomes  totally  disabled  or  dies  before  February  12.  Ther« 
is  only  one  of  two  solutions  to  the  dilemma.  Either  take  $4,500  in- 
surance or  more  and  by  all  odds  the  simj)lest  thing  for  you  to  ex- 
plain to  the  m.en  is  that,  or  go  into  an  explanation  and  tell  them  why 
they  must  choose  between  one  or  the  other,  and  I  admit  that  will  be 
difficult  to  do. 

A  Member.  1  am  going  to  avoid  the  explanation. 

Judge  Mack.  Well,  I  do  not  doubt  that  practicalW  all  the  men  in 
this  room  are  going  to  avoid  the  explanation,  because  when  you  con- 
sider the  amount,  the  cost,  the  yarj  low  cost  during  the  war,  and  for 
five  years  afterwards,  cf  the  entire  $10,000  insurance,  there  is  no 
reason  why  a  man  should  not  take  out  the  whole  amount.  Now  let 
me  add,  in  conclusion,  a  very  few  words: 

There  are  many  unmarried  men  in  the  Array.  A  groat  majority 
of  them  are  unmarried.  It  is  not  always  easy  for  unmarried  young- 
sters, particularl}'^,  to  understand  the  need  of  insurance.  I  think  it 
is  your  duty  to  bring  home  to  them  a  realization  of  one  fact,  which 
is  very  important  for  civilians  but  infinitely  more  important  for  these 
men  to  understand;  the  fact  that  a  man  is  uninsurable  practically 
never  prevents  htm  from  getting  married  and  having  children.  I  say 
practically;  of  course  his  degree  of  uninsurability  may  be  such  that 
he  would  not  marry;  but  even  then  it  is  not  the  mere  fact  of  uninsur- 
ability that  prevents  him;  it  is  some  disease  or  something  of  that 
kind."^  The  important  fact,  that  the  insurance  companies  say  he  is 
not  healthy  and  that  they  won't  insure  him,  rarely  if  ever  stops  a 
man  from  getting  married  and  having  children.  Now,  he  can  not 
protect  them  with  life  insurance.  A  civilian,  therefore,  ought  to 
take  out  life  insurance  when  he  is  well,  because  he  may,  through  an 
accident,  become  uninsurable  any  day.  Infinitely  more  important  is 
this  for  the  boys  in  the  service.  Of  course,  every  one  of  them  realizes 
tliat  he  is  running  risks.  For  them  this  is  a  tremendous  opportunity 
to  get  protection  for  the  future.  They  are  the  ones  who  are  most 
likely  to  become  uninsurable;  and  yet  the  desire  to  marry  and  to 
have  children  will  not  be  given  up.     They  won't  be  able  to  protect 


LIFE   INSUIiANCE^    ETC.,    FOR    SOl.DIKKS   AND   SAILOKri.  43 

that  wifo  ami  llio^c  cliildrcn  by  insurance  lion'afltT.  If  llic}-  take 
it  now,  they  have  tho  protection. 

Tliore  is  not  a  private  in  the  service  who  can  not  afford  to  take  the 
fnll  amount  of  $1().(H)0  insurance,  even  though  he  gives  ?>15  a  month 
to  his  family.  Take  the  average  of,  sav,  29 — $(5.90  monthly  for 
^;l(),(J<JO.  Add  that  to  the  $15— less  than  $22.  He  is  getting  for  serv- 
ice ill  France  $*}*>  and  for  service  in  this  country  $30.  He  still  has 
sufficient  spending  money,  and  he  is  building  up  a  tremendous  pro- 
tection for  the  futin'e  botli  for  himself  and  his  family. 

One  of  the  main  reasons  for  the  Government  giving  this  in.su r- 
ance  opportunity  was  this:  The  two  things  that  have  given  the 
pension  system,  justly  or  unjustly,  its  present  name  are,  first,  the 
si)ecial  legislation  for  private  pensions,  and,  second,  much  more 
than  th.i*-,,  the  so-called  service-pension  legislation.  That  began 
25  yeai-s  after  the  Civil  War.  Now,  as  I  said  in  the  begimiing,  no 
one  begrudges  the  man  who  is  injured  in  the  service  or  as  a  result  of 
the  service,  or  the  family  of  that  man,  in  case  he  dies  as  a  result  of 
that  service,  anything  that  the  Government  may  grant  him.  But 
there  is  a  tremendous  difference  of  opinion  as  to  whether  because  a 
man  served  in  the  war  and  has  now  reached  the  age  of  62,  or  has 
now  become  disabled  or  has  been  killed  in  a  street  car  accident  out  in 
the  street  25  years  after  the  war,  death  or  injury  that  had  absoiut^lj 
nothing  to  do  w^ith  his  war  service,  that  man  or  his  family  should  be 
given  a  pension.  The  majority  decided  in  the  general  service-pension 
legislation  that  he  should.  A  very  strong  minority  thought  tliat  to 
be  a  degradation  of  the  pension  system.  I  am  not  .saying  which  was 
right  and  which  Avas  wrong.  It  may  well  be  that  the  majority  wa.s 
right;  that  because  the  Government,  when  these  rnen  went  out  to 
service,  took  no  care  of  their  future,  unless  they  were  disabled  in  tho 
.service,  that  they  were  justified  in  asking  service  pensions  of  tlio 
Government. 

Now,  one  of  the  main  objects  of  this  insurance  provision  is  to  stop 
that  sort  of  thing  in  the  future.  To  some  extent,  it  puts  him  in  the 
position  of  appealing  to  his  Government  for  help,  not  because  he 
has  become  disabled  in  serving  his  Government,  but  merely  because 
he  once  served  his  Government  patriotically.  Men  do  not  liko  to  b« 
put  in  that  position.  An  infinitely  preferable  method  of  meeting  the 
need  is  by  solf-protection.  A  man  can  protect  himself  against  dis- 
ability and  the  inevitableness  of  death  and  their  consequences  by 
insuring  himself,  insuring  himself  when  he  is  well,  injuring  himself 
at  the  i»egiuning  of  his  service  so  that  later  on  in  life,  through  his 
own  efforts,  he  will  have  saAed  something  for  himself  and  for  his 
family,  and  will  not  have  to  go  to  the  Govermnent  and  say.  "  Just 
l)ecause  I  served  you  patriotically,  despite  the  fact  that  you  cared 
for  me  then,  and  that  you  promised  to  care  for  mv  family  in  case 
disaster  came  upon  me  as  a  result  of  my  service,  t  now  say  that  T 
want  your  help."  This  insurance  is  intended  to  protect  men  from 
being  compelled,  as  our  Civil  ^^^l^  veterans  felt  compelled,  to  put 
themselves  in  that  position.  Whether  or  not  service  pension  legisla- 
tion Avill  l>e  averted,  of  coms(>  no  man  can  foretell.  No  C^mgress 
can  tie  the  hands  of  any  subsequent  Congress.  But  this  Congress 
has  erected  a  moral  barrier  on  the  firm  American  basis  of  self- 
reliance  and  self-protection.  Every  man  in  the  service  should  avail 
himself  of  the  opportunity,  not  merely  for  his  own  goml,  not  merely 
for  tho  ixood  of  his  family,  but  for  the  good  of  the  whole  country. 


44  LIFE    INSURANCE,    ETC.,   FOR    SOLDIERS   AND    SAILORS. 

becnnse.  \vliotlier  we  consider  service  pensions  good  or  bad.  surely 
we  Avill  all  rejoice  if,  through  this  insurance  opportunity,  the  heroes 
of  this  war  will  be  spared  the  necessity  of  asking  for  service  pen- 
sions. 

A  Member.  There  is  a  provision  in  the  Army  Eegulations  that  an 
officer  or  enlisted  man  losing  his  life  by  death  or  otherwise  while  in 
the  service  is  entitled  to  six  months'  pay. 

Judge  Mack.  Yes. 

A  Member.  Is  it  written  out? 

Judge  Mack.  That  is  written  out.  The  existing  pension  laws  and 
these  other  laws  are  superseded  by  the  new  provisions.  The  compen- 
sation and  the  insurance  take  the  place  of  it.  Whatever  rights  a  man 
has  that  have  accrued  in  the  past  are  retained;  a  man  who  is  getting 
a  pension  to-day  continues  to  get  it. 

An  important  question  was  just  asked  me.  I  ought  not  to  have 
assumed  you  know  the  answer.  This  insurance,  once  issued  by  the 
Government,  can  be  kept  up  forever,  not  only  during  the  war,  but 
afterwards;  not  oidy  during  the  period  of  term  insurance,  but  v;hen 
you  convert  it.  It  has  nothing  to  do  with  private  insurance  companies. 
It  is  Government  insurance  forever.  It  applies  for  all  time  to  all 
men  Avho  take  it  out  while  they  are  in  the  active  military  and  naval 
service,  not  only  to  those  now  in  service,  not  only  to  those  serving 
during  the  present  war,  but  to  the  soldiers  and  sailors  for  all  time; 
t'nd  it  will  he  continued  for  them  after  they  leave  the  service. 

INSURANCE  INFORMATION  BUREAU. 

Section  24  provides  that  the  bureau  shall  on  request  give  informa- 
tion and  act  for  the  men  in  leference  to  any  policies  of  insurance. 
That  means  this:  There  will  be  an  insurance  department ;  it  will  have 
experts  in  charge;  and  it  will,  if  it  can,  be  helpful  to  you,  because 
most  men  are  wholly  ignorant  of  insurance  and  of  all  the  technicali- 
ties in  their  policies.  Those  of  you  who  ha^e  no  place  to  leave  your 
insurance  policies  can  leave  them  on  deposit  there.  Those  of  3^ou  who 
have  no  one  to  be  notified  when  your  ])i-emiums  are  coming  due  on 
your  private  insurance  policies  can  have  the  bureau  act  as  your 
agent.  Supply  it  in  some  way  or  other  with  the  money  to  pay  your 
premium,  so  that  you  do  not  lapse  your  policy.  The  bureau  wants  to 
be  a  real  help  not  only  as  to  this  Government  insurance  but  as  to 
other  insurance  which  }ou  may  carry. 

FILLING  OUT  APPLICATION  BLANKS. 

Let  me  again  impress  upon  you  the  exceedingly  important  obliga- 
tion to  rs-present  to  the  other  fellows  in  the  camp  what  you  have 
gained  from  these  three  days  of  conference,  so  that  they  and  their 
families  may  know  their  rights.  And,  secondly — and  this  relates 
to  the  pr-ivates  and  to  the  noncommissioned  officers — that  they 
may  kno->v  their  duties  under  the  act.  For  the  enlisted  men  have 
an  absolute  duty  under  this  law — to  fill  out  these  allotments  and 
allowance  blanks.  It  is  the  duty  of  every  man  under  the  grade 
of  commissioned  officer,  whether  he  is  claiming  an  allowance  for 
his  family  or  not,  whether  he  is  under  compulsion  to  make  an 
allotment  or  not,  to  fill  out  a  blank  giving  the  information,  because 
only    if   he    does    fill   it   out   can   the   department    know^ — at    least 


LIFE    INSURANCE,    ETC.,    FOR    SOLDIERS   AND    SAILORS.  45 

know  prima  facie — whother  or  not  an  allotment  is  compulsory.  Tliat 
follows  from  the  i)rovision  of  the  law  that  if  he  has  a  wife,  child, 
or  former  wife,  (li\()rce(l,  to  whom  alimony  has  been  decreed,  auto- 
matically a  detlucton  from  his  pay  must  be  made.  Therefore  every 
man  must  answer  the  (juestion  whether  he  has  anyone  in  this  class. 
If  he  answers  it  in  the  affirmative,  he  must  then  go  on  and  state  who 
they  are,  and  that  irrespective  of  whether  he  wants  them  to  get  an 
allowance  or  whether  they  want  to  get  an  allowance,  or  whether  they 
Avant  his  allotment  or  wliether  the}'  don't  want  his  allotment,  because 
he  hasn't  the  final  decision  as  to  whether  an  allowance  shall  be  made. 

The  family  has  the  right  to  claim  the  allotment  and  the  allowance 
against  his  will.  The  bureau  has  the  right,  and  even  though  the 
family  should  be  inclined  j)atriotically  or  for  other  reasons  to  waive 
the  allotment,  to  compel  him  to  pay  the  allotment. 

Now,  the  men  in  the  Army  are  gathered  from  all  ranks  of  society 
and  all  classes  of  men.  and  it  would  be  incredible  if  there  were  not 
some  men  in  the  Army  who  would  be  inclined  to  shirk  their  duty  in 
this  i-espect.  Therefore  it  is  important  to  acquaint  the  men  with  the 
instructions  that  you  Avill  find  with  the  allotment  and  application 
blank.  It  is  important  that  they  should  know  at  once  that  the  United 
States  Govermnent  requires  absolute  frankness  and  honesty  in  the 
statements  that  arc  made,  and  in  addition  to  its  being  a  military  of- 
fense, a  willfully  false  statement  will  lead  to  civil  prosecution  for 
perjury,  Avith  the  penalty  of  imprisonment  in  the  penitentiary  and 
a  heavy  fine. 

It  does  not  make  any  difference  whether  the  man  has  gone  into  the 
army  as  a  single  man  or  not:  when  he  comes  to  give  this  information, 
if  he  has  a  Avife  oi-  children  he  must  come  out  and  say  it.  So  far  as 
illegitimate  children  are  concerned,  unless  he  has  acknowledged 
them  in  writing  as  his  own,  or  unless  he  has  been  decreed  by  the 
court  to  support  them  or  to  contribute  to  their  support,  he  can  not 
be  refjuircd  to  give  any  information.  But  as  to  any  illegitimate 
child  that  he  has  in  writing  acknowledged  as  his  own  or  that  he  is 
ready  at  this  time  to  acknowledge  in  writing  as  his  own  in  order 
that  it  may  receive  the  governmental  support,  and  as  to  any  illegiti- 
mate child  to  whose  support  he  has  been  decreed  to  contribute?, 
whether  he  says  it  is  liis  child  or  not,  if  the  court  has  found  against 
him,  it  is  his  absolute  duty  to  give  the  information. 

This  infoi-mation,  of  course,  that  is  given  in  these  blanks  is  not  for 
public  circulation.  It  is  to  a  very  considerable  degree  confidential, 
for  the  use  of  the  bureau  and  for'the  use  of  the  Army.  Men  ought 
to  be  impressed  with  that  fact  in  order  that  they  mav  not  briiig 
upon  themselves  the  penalty  for  f>-ivin<r  false  information  and  in 
order  that  they  may  not  by  their  fiilse  information  tend  to  deprive 
those  who  ha\  e  a  claim  under  the  law  of  that  claim. 

Of  course,  it  is  just  as  serious  to  overstate  as  to  understate.  Unless 
the  man  is  really  married  to  the  woman,  at  least  in  the  sense  that  they 
have  openly  lived  together  as  husband  and  wife  for  two  years — wlien 
I  say  openly  lived  together  as  husband  and  wife  I  mean  held  them- 
selves out  to  the  community  and  been  considered  by  the  community  as 
husband  and  wife  day  after  day — he  must  not  say  that  the  Avoman 
is  his  wife  if  she  is  not.  But  for  the  purposes  of  the  allowance  and 
the  allotuunt  article  the  law  expressly  says  that  Avhen  a  man  and  a 
Avoinan  have  lived  together  openly  and  publicly  in  the  acknoAvledged 


46  LIFE    INSURANCE,   ETC.,   FOR   SOLDIERS   AND   SAILORS. 

reJation  of  husband  and  wife,  that  will  suffice,  and  in  the  absence  of 
a  legal  spouse  who,  of  course,  has  the  only  claim,  the  first  claim  and 
the  only  claim,  the  marriage  between  these  two  will  be  conclusively 
presumed.  That  does  not  apply  to  the  insurance  article  or  to  the 
compensjition  article  in  case  of  disability  or  death,  but  only  to  the 
family-allowance  section. 

Now,  gentlemen,  I  was  asked  at  the  beginning  of  the  session  about 
this  compulsory  deposit.  Let  me  say  first  that  no  regulation  has  as 
yet  been  made  by  the  Secretary  of  War  or  the  Secretary  of  the  Navy 
compelling  a  deposit,  and  I  was  asked  whether  the  amount  that  a 
man  pays  for  his  Liberty  bond  would  be  considered.  The  answ'er 
is,  that  the  law  says  that  the  most  that  you  can  be  compelled  to 
deposit  with  the  Government  is  one-half  of  your  pay.  Now,  that  is 
the  most;  but  before  any  of  that  half  pay  is  to  be  deposited  there 
will  be  deducted  from  it  any  allotment  that  you  make,  whether  it  is 
a  compulsory  allotment  or  a  voluntary  allotment.  Now,  then,  let  us 
illustrate  that  by  an  example.  Suppose  a  man  is  getting  $90  pay,  and 
suppose  he  has  not  allotted  anything.  The  Secretary  of  War  can 
say,  by  regulation,  "  You  must  deposit  so  much  of  one-half  of  your 
])ay:  that  is.  of  $45  as  is  not  allotted."  Suppose  a  man  has  allotted 
$15  to  his  wife,  $5  to  his  mother,  and  is  paying  $15  a  month  insurance 
premium.  That  is  $35  already ;  assume  that  he  promised  $10  monthly 
for  a  certain  period  for  Liberty  bonds  and  told  them  to  take  that  out 
of  his  pay.  That  is  also  an  allotment.  You  now  have  $45.  That  is 
half  his  pay.  There  is  nothing  left  that  the  Government  can  compel, 
liim  to  deposit.  One-half  of  his  pay  is  subject  completely  to  his  own 
will.  Of  course,  if  that  man  wants  to  allot  $30  to  his  wife  and  $15  to 
his  mother,  that  is  $45.  If  he  wants  to  allot  $10  for  a  Libert}'-  bond, 
that  is  $55.  And  if  he  wants  to  allot  another  $10  to  pay  his  insur- 
ance, that  will  be  $65.  That  will  all  be  deducted  from  his  pay,  and 
he  will  get  the  balance  of  his  pay,  $25.^ 

A  Member.  Let  me  ask  you  a  question,  please,  right  there.  Do  not 
talk  about  the  $60  man  or  the  $90  man,  talk  about  the  $30  man. 

Judge  Mack.  The  same  thing  applies.  Suppose  he  is  paying  $15 
to  Iiis  wife  and  two  children.  The  other  $15  he  can  do  with  as  he 
pleases.  He  can  allot  it  or  any  part  of  it  subject  to  some  possible 
regulations  that  may  be  made  which  may  say  that  every  man  ought 
to  kf^ep  st)mething  out  of  his  pay. 

A  Member.  Suppose  that  in  the  meantime  he  has  already  obligated 
himself  for  $20  for  a  Liberty  bond. 

Judge  Mack.  If  he  has  allotted  $20  for  a  Liberty  bond,  he  can 
not  pa}'  it  out  of  his  pay,  because  the  first  thing  is  the  compulsory 
allotment  to  his  wife  and  children.    That  comes  first. 

A  Member.  He  is  already  under  the  contract  obligation  to  pay 
$20  for  Liberty  bonds. 

Judge  Mack.  Well,  he  has  no  outside  resou.rces. 

A  Member.  No,  sir. 

Judge  Mack.  He  can't  meet  that  obligation.  But  the  Govern- 
ment will  have  to  relieve  him  of  that.  In  my  judgment,  some  general 
order  ought  to  be  issued,  and  ought  to  be  issued  mighty  quickly,  to 
answer  that  question.  But  this  law  has  nothing  to  do  with  it.  A  man 
can't  allot  aw-ay  from  his  wife  and  his  children,  because  that  is  a 
compulsory  deduction,  and  he  can't  get  away  from  it.     His  entire 


UFE   TNbURAXCE,   ETC.^   FOR   SOI.DIERri   AND   SAILORS.  47 

pay  is  not  within  his  controh  If  ho  has  a  wife  and  ohil(hvii,  or  a  di- 
Aorrrd  wife  who  has  a  claim  on  him  for  alimony,  tho  conipnlsory 
allotment  comes  first  and  will  be  d»Mlncled  automatically  unless  he 
askri  for  exemption,  and  reasons  ;u'e  fonn<l  to  exempt  him,  or  unless 
she  wai\es  it;  hut  otherwise  that  has  cot  to  be  deducted. 

A  Mkmijf.k.  I  would  like  to  brine:  up  the  question  presented  in  the 
preceding  (juestion.  Suppose  he  gets  $40  a  month.  He  has  a  vv^ife, 
two  children,  and  a  dependent  mother.  All  of  them  dependent  upon 
him  for  supjiort.  Let  us  assume  that  that  man  has  obligations,  old- 
line  insui-ance  companies  or  otherwise,  wiiich  he  feels  compelled  to 
meet,  and  he  feels  he  can  not  contribute  more  tlian  $20  to  the  com- 
]iidsory  allotment.  How  can  he  best  place  the  allotment  so  as  to 
meet  the  cc/mpulsory  family  allowance? 

Judge  Mack.  In  the  first  place  he  must  pay  $20  to  his  wife  and 
children.  If  he  wants  his  mother  to  get  the  Oovenmient  allowance 
he  mns-t  do  one  of  two  things,  either  pay  her  nearly  $G,  which 
is  one-se\enth  of  his  pay,  or  apply  for  exemption  from  that  payment. 
If  a  man's  circumstances  arc  snch  as  you  state,  that  he  has  nothing 
but  his  pay,  that  he  needs  $20  for  his  wife  and  children  over  and 
above  the  $32.50  which  the  Government  gives  a  wife  and  two  chil- 
dren— that  is,  $52.50  as  the  minimum  on  which  that  wife  and  two 
children  can  live — if  that  is  his  status,  and  if,  in  addition  to  that, 
he  has  some  fixed  obligation  which  he  has  no  other  way  to  meer 
except  throngh  the  balance  of  his  $40  pay,  I  have  little  cloubt  that 
the  bureau  woidd  consider  that  it  was  a  special  case 

A  Member.  I  think  we  are  talking  at  cross-pnrposes.  The  propo- 
sition I  put  up  was  that  he  feels  that  he  can  put  in  $20  for  his 
allotment  and  he  wants  to  so  place  it. 

Judge  Mack.  He  can  so  place  it. 

A  Mkht-kk.  He  can  allot  $20  payable  to  his  v.-ife? 

Judge  Mack.  He  not  only  can  but  must;  $20  is  his  compulsory 
allotment  for  a  wile  and  child.    Ho  hasn't  any  choice. 

A  Mempkr.  Then  the  Government  will  allot  this  for  him. 

Judge  Mack.  The  law  provides  how  much  allowance  he  will  get 
in  that  case.  The  law  savs  that  a  wife  and  two  children  shall  iret 
$32.50. 

A  Mf.mbf.k.  Then  the  family  allowance  would  not  exceed  the  com- 
pulsory allotment? 

Judge  Mack.  That  is  not  correct;  the  compulsory  allotmei.t  fol- 
lows the  allowance.  The  family  allowance  is  fixed  in  the  law.  It 
is  $15  for  a  wife,  $25  for  a  wife  and  one  child,  $;V2.50  for  a  wiie  and 
two  children.  That  is  the  problem  that  you  stated.  Hie  family 
allowance  is  fixed.  Now,  the  family  allowance  being  fixed  at  $32.50. 
what  must  the  man  allot  to  his  wife  and  two  children.  He  must 
allot  the  S5ime  amount  that  the  Government  give.s,  $32.50,  with  this 
exce]>tion.  that  he  can  not  allot  less  than  $15,  and  he  need  not  allot 
more  than  half  his  pay.  W\mt  is  half  his  pay?  $20  in  the  cns<' 
you  stated.  Therefore  he  nuist  allot  $20  to  his  wife  and  children, 
and  that  family  of  a  wife  and  two  children  will  g^oi  from  allotment 
and  allowance  together  $52.50.     Now,  .so  far  it  is  clear. 

A  MEMiuat.  Just  one  point  to  clear  it.  Does  a  man  have  to  take 
any  steps  to  make  this  allotment  of  $20? 


48  LIFE    INSURANCE,   ETC.,   FOR    SOLDIERS   AND   SAILORS. 

Jiulgc  Mack.  No. 

A  ^Ie:mbei;.  What  if  lie  does  not  feel  that  he  can  afford  this  $20? 

Judge  Mack.  It  doesn't  make  any  difference.  If  that  compulsory 
allotment  of  $'20  is  going  to  be  more  than  he  can  pay  he  should  apply 
by  Avriting  to  the  bureau  for  an  exemption,  but  he  is  not  apt  to  get  it. 

A  Member.  It  might  be  a  good  thing  to  persuade  his  wife  to  send 
him  a  check  for  $5  or  $10. 

Judge  Mack.  Yes;  there  is  no  objection  to  his  wife  doing  that  if 
she  wants  to. 

A  Member.  Does  he  have  to  apply  for  the  allowance? 

Judge  Mack.  That  wasn't  the  question.  The  question  was,  What 
steps  must  he  take  so  that  the  family  may  get  this  compulsory  allot- 
ment ?  I  said  in  the  beginning,  before  you  were  here,  that  every  man 
must  fill  out  this  blank  ^^hether  he  Avants  the  allowance  or  doesn't 
want  the  allowance.  Every  man  under  the  grade  of  commissioned 
officer  must  fill  out  this  blank,  Noav,  when  he  fills  out  this  blank,  as- 
suming tht;t  he  is  filling  it  out  honestly,  we  know  that  he  has  a  wife 
and  two  children.  Automaticall}^  that  wife  and  two  children  get  the 
compulsory  allotment.  That  is  automatic.  Now,  if  he  wants  an  al- 
lowance for  them  he  must  apply  for  that.  If  he  doesn't  apply  for  it 
and  if  they  want  it,  they  must  apply.  Now,  that  application  is 
printed  on  the  same  form  as  this  information  wdiich  he  must  give. 
He  can't  get  out  of  the  compulsory  allotment  simply  because  he  does 
not  want  the  allowance  or  because  his  Avife  does  not  want  the 
allowance.  His  wife,  however,  can  say,  "  I  waive  this  compulsory 
allotment,"  if  she  wishes  to,  and  if  she  does  not  need  that  sup- 
port from  him,  the  bureau  will  let  her  waive  it.  Then  the  com- 
pulsory allotment  is  at  an  end  and  he  can  then  do  as  he  pleases 
with  his  money,  except  for  regidations  that  the  Secretary  of  War 
may  make. 

A  Member.  While  we  are  on  this  subject  I  would  like  to  raise  a 
question  as  to  what  is  to  be  done  with  the  faix  sex,  the  ladies  that  we 
have  in  the  Navy  as  yeowomen.  There  are  thousands  of  them.  If 
these  ladies  are  to  be  treated  according  to  the  strict  terms  of  the  law 
they  will  be  badly  treated. 

Judge  JSIack.  They  are  treated  exactly  like  men  in  the  same  posi- 
tion.    It  makes  no  difference,  the  law  says  expressly. 

A  Member.  On  the  question  of  allotments  and  the  benefits  to  be 
deriA'ed  therefrom. 

Judge  Mack.  The  difference  is  that  you  can  not  subject  them  to 
compulsory  allotment.  The  law  gives  them  absolute  equality  with 
the  men. 

A  Member.  On  the  same  footing? 

Judge  Mack.  On  the  same  footing,  exactly,  and  in  every  respect. 
There  is  no  difference  between  them.  You  will  find  enlisted  men  in- 
cludes men  or  women,  and  wherever  the  term  enlisted  men,  or  men 
is  used,  it  refers  to  men  or  women  in  the  same  position. 

A  Member.  Then  the  compulsoi'v  allotment  will  apjily  to  them  also. 

Judge  Mack.  Except  only  compulsion  as  to  allotment.  The  wife 
is  not  defined  as  including  the  husband;  therefore,  if  one  of  these 
young  Avomen  has  a  husband  she  need  not  make  the  allotment  to  him. 
[Tjaughter.] 

A  Member.  Suppose  the  husband  can  not  take  care  of  himself? 


UFE   INSURAXCK,    ETC.,    FOR    POl.DTERS    AND    SAILOBS.  49 

Jiulgfe  Mack.  All  T  cim  sny  is  thai  the  law  does  not  compol  bor  to 
make  the  allotment.     She  can  do  as  she  pleases  aitoiit  it. 

AMemi!!:k.  I  notice  that  l)oth  in  the  law  and  the  application  blank 
for  insniance  that  an  enlisted  man  is  t<j  have  the  premium  taken  out 
of  his  pa,y. 

.hidi^e  Mack.  If  he  wants  it. 

A  Mkmhkr.  That  is  what  I  wish  to  know;  is  that  compulsory? 

Judge  Mack.  Not  at  all.  You  will  notice  if  you  read  that  clause 
'•  I  authorize  the  necessary  monthly  deduction  from  my  pay.  or  if  in- 
sutlicient.  from  any  deposit  with  (he  Ignited  States,  in  i>ayment  of  the 
premiums  as  they  become  due,  unless  they  are  otherwise  paid.''  If  a 
man  does  not  want  his  premium  to  be  deducted  he  can  send  his  check 
to  the  bureau  each  month,  or  he  can  send  it  now  for  a  year  in  advance, 
or  anything  else  that  he  pleases. 

A  ME:\n?Ei{.  There  is  one  other  question  that  I  would  like  to  a.sk. 
It  has  been  gone  over,  and  perhaps  CAcrybody  in  the  room  is  familiar 
with  it,  but  there  are  some  of  these  things  that  I  woidd  like  to  em- 
phasize. Now,  I  believe  it  comes  under  the  compensation  feature  of 
the  law.  When  does  this  compensation  feature  begin  and  when  does 
it  end '? 

Judge  ]Mack.  Compensation  for  disability  begins  with  the  disabil- 
ity, subject,  however,  to  this:  That  while  a  man  is  receiving  pay  in 
the  service  he  docs  not  get  his  disability  compensation.  It  Itegins  when 
both  elements  are  there — disability  and  discharge  from  the  service. 

A  ME.Aini:!?.  Then  it  runs  210  months  from  that  time? 

.Judge  Mack.  No;  j^ou  are  talking  about  insurance. 

A  MEjrBER.  It  runs  for  life? 

Judge  Mack.  So  long  as  the  disability  lasts.  If  it  is  a  disability 
tliat  lasts  a  month,  at  the  end  of  the  month,  if  he  is  Avell  again,  it  is 
^toj^ped.  If  the  disability  begins  again,  it  goes  on.  If  a  man  has 
both  legs  off,  the  disability  in  the  nature  of  things  is  permanent. 
From  the  moment  he  is  dischai-ged  he  has  to  be  paid  i>100  a  month  for 
life. 

A  Me:mrer.  One  othei-  question.  I  think  a  man  is  given  120  days 
to  accept  the  conditions  of  this  insurance  or  reject  it.  and  in  the  mean- 
time he  is  covered  for  that  120  days  to  the  extent  of  )f>2~}  a  month  in 
case  of  death  or  permaricnt  disability.  Now.  does  that  cease  on  Feb- 
ruary' 12,  or  is  that  continuous  during  his  service? 

Judge  Mack.  That  depends  on  Avhat  you  mean.  If  you  mean  will 
he  continue  to  be  rnsured  if  he  has  become  totally  disabled  before 
February  12 

A  Memhei;.  And  at  that  tin-e  docs  not  desire  insurance. 

Judge  Mack  (continuing).  And  at  that  time  does  not  desire  insur- 
ance he  still  gets  the  $25.  It  means  that  if  he  has  not  taken  out 
insurance  and  has  been  unfortunate  enough  to  become  totally  disabled 
before  February  12  the  payments  will  be  continued  for  life.  I^ 
means  that  if  he  dies  on  or  before  Febnuiry  12,  without  having  taken 
out  insurance,  that  ^2,"j  will  be  paid  to  his  wife  and  children  and  his 
widowed  mother  as  long  as  they  live,  but  no  more  than  240  months. 
If,  including  the  months  that  he  himself  receives  it,  all  of  them  die 
before  the  2-10  months,  it  ceases  altogether.  It  means  that  if  he  be- 
comes totally  disabled  on  or  before  February  12  and  he  begins  to  get 
$25  and  at  the  end  of  12  months  he  dies  and  leaves  a  wife,  child,  or 
lOSOS"— 17 i 


50  LIFE   TI^rSrKAXCE,  ETC.,  FOE  SOLDIERS  AND   SAILORS. 

NvidoTved  mother,  that  the  payment  of  $25  a  month  will  be  contmiied 
to  he  paid  to  them  as  long  us  they  live,  but  in  that  case  not  exceeding 
19  years.  That  is,  20  years,  including  the  one  year  he  lias  been  receiv- 
ing the  $25  a  month. 

A  Member.  Xow,  I  would  like  to  ask  this  question:  There  are  a 
few  boys  over  in  the  hospital  wlio  will  probably  receive  their  survey 
shortly;  are  they  going  home  disabled  vrithout  having  the  privilege 
of  this  insurance? 

Judge  Mack.  No,  sir;  any  man  before  he  is  discharged,  while  he 
is  in  active  service,  has  a  right  to  take  out  this  insurance;  but  if  he 
Vv'aits  until  he  is  totally  disabled  he  can  not  take  out  insurance  agamst 
total  disability.  He  can  take  out  insurance  against  his  death.  But 
if  he  is  t<jtally  and  permanently  disabled  before  February  12,  then, 
he  woii't  want  to  take  out  insurance,  because  he  is  going  to  get  $25  a 
month,  automatically,  as  long  as  he  lives.  If  he  is  going  to  take  out 
more  than  $4,000 — say,  $4,500  or  upward — the  longer  lie  waits  the 
more  chances  he  takes  that  he  will  be  caught  without  having  any 
insurance,  and  the  difference  bet^veen  $25  and  what  he  would  have 
would  represent  a  loss  to  his  family. 

A  Member.  In  section  401  the  men  who  were  in  the  service  on  the  6th 
day  of  April  and  have  died  between  that  time  and  now,  it  would 
seem  that  tliis  act  is  retroactive  for  them. 

Judge  Mack.  Yes;  the  families  can  get  it.  If  a  man  has  died  and 
left  a  wife,  child,  or  widowed  mother  they  will  get  this  $25  as  long 
as  they  live,  but  not  exceeding  20  years;  and  after  he  has  become 
totally  disabled  he  will  get  it  in  exactly  the  same  way.  The  act  is 
retroactive  in  that  respect. 

A  Member.  I  would  like  to  ask  one  question  to  supplement  this. 
There  is  a  man  in  the  hospital  who  has  been  discharged.  Has  it  any- 
thing to  do  with  the  question  that  the  trouble  originated  before  this 
bill  passed? 

Judge  Mack.  Yoq  mean  as  to  total  disability? 

A  Member.  No;  partial  disability. 

Ju<lge  Mack.  No.  If  these  men  are  not  totally  and  permanently 
disabled  they  do  not  get  the  $25  monthly  insurance,  and  they  do  not 
get  compensation.  They  are  taken  care  of  under  the  pension  laws. 
In  other  words,  the  pension  laws  are  in  operation  up  to  October  G, 
the  date  Ihat  this  compensation  law  was  passed,  for  anything  that 
happened  l)ef<n'e  that.  Those  men,  however,  who  were  permanently  or 
totally  disabled  or  who  died  between  April  6  and»October  6  get  this 
$25  monthly  insurance  as  an  additional  allowance  to  them  over  and 
above  what  the  pension  laws  give;  but  the  pension  laws  and  the 
gratuity  laws  were  in  full  force  up  to  October  6.  On  and  after 
October  C  they  were  supplanted  by  this  law. 

A  Mf^iber."  It  is  not  quite  clear  now  vrhethor  or  not  the  compensa- 
tion act  pays  in  the  case  of  death  arising  in  the  line  of  duty  in  addi- 
tion to  this  emergency  insurance.  In  other  words,  if  a  man  leaves 
a  dependent  wife  and  has  been  injured,  and  as  a  result  dies  while  in 
the  line  of  duty  and  takes  out  no  insurance,  he  receives  $25;  that  is, 
his  wife  receives  $25  in  compensation  in  addition  to  the  $25  provided. 

Judge  Mack.  Right.  In  other  words,  the  language  of  the  act  is 
that  he  will  be  deeined  to  have  taken  out  and  have  been  granted  in- 
surance bringing  $25 ;  that  is  in  addition  to  what  she  gets  under  the 
compensation  article. 


LIFE   INSURANCE,   ETC.,   FOR   SOLDIERS   AXD   SAILORS.  51 

A  Member.  I  would  like  ii  ruling  on  wliether  or  not  ofticcr.s  who 
have  betn  rotiivd  iind  returned  to  active  duty — retired  from  artive 
list,  but  put  on  active  duty  by  the  President  during  the  war — are 
entitled  to  this  insurance? 

Judge  Mack.  *\'es;  I  answered  the  other  day  that  they  are,  and 
for  this  reason:  The  expression  "On  the  active  list"  is  not  used  in 
the  law.  The  expression  used  in  the  law  is  "  In  the  active  service.'' 
Men  on  the  retired  list  who  have  been  brought  back  to  tlie  active 
ssrvice  are  in  the  active  service  and  are  covered  and  were  intende*! 
by  the  use  of  that  phrase  to  be  covered  by  this  law. 

A  Member.  Judge,  now  when  we  return  to  our  cantonments,  are 
we  to  encourage  the  writing  of  insurance  in  amounts  of  $5,000  he- 
fore  the  date  of  February  12  or  not?  Now,  as  I  understand  it,  the 
liiw  })rovides  that  insurance  shall  be  given  up  until  that  date  for  an 
amount  around  forty-five  hundred  dollars  without  premium  charged. 

Judge  Mack.  The  law  does  not  say  without  premium  and  it  does 
not  say  with  premium  charged.  You  certainly  do  not  have  to  pay 
any  j)remium.  If  a  man  dies,  I  can  not  answer  whether  the  premium 
is  going  to  be  deducted. 

A  Member.  Well,  then,  am  I  not  to  understand,  for  instance,  if  I 
take  out  a  $10,000  policy  to-day,  I  am  to  get  the  benefit  of  that  forty- 
five  hundred  dollars? 

Judge  Mack.  No;  your  premium  is  on  $10,000  insurance.  I  think 
it  is  very  desirable  to  encourage  them  to  take  out  the  insurance  at 
once,  l)ecause  the  insurance  which  they  take  out  is  a  great  deal  better 
than  the  free  insurance  which  the  Government  is  giving.  In  the 
first  place  it  is  payable  to  a  larger  class  of  people,  in  the  second  place 
the  insurance  which  the  Government  gives  them  is  equivalent  to  oidy 
forty-three  hundred  dollars,  so  that  if  they  want  to  take  out  more 
than  that  they  w-ill  get  more  for  their  money.  If  they  want  to  benefit 
father,  married  mother,  brother,  or  sister,  the  only  way  they  can  do 
it  is  to  take  out  insurance,  no  matter  what  the  amount,  because  tlie 
automatic  insurance  is  limited  to  the  wife,  child,  or  widowed  mother. 
In  the  next  place  it  is  not  for  240  months  straight,  but  for  that  time 
within  240  montlis  that  these  three  specific  classes  survive.  The  in- 
surance that  you  buy  is  for  240  montlis  straight,  and  you  can  leave  it 
to  the  larger' class.  Now.  of  course,  if  you  have  nobody  within  the 
larger  class  and  the  whole  class  dies  out  and  there  is  nobody  at  any 
time  left,  that  comes  within  the  broad  descriptions  of  grandchild, 
parents,  brothers,  or  sisters  there  would  not  be  anybody  to  take  it. 
but  those  terms  are  very  broad,  and  include  a  good  many  people. 

A  Member.  May  I  go  into  that  further?  Suppose  the  man  who 
does  not  want  insurance  for  class  li.  but  for  class  A,  and  thei-eforc  he 
would  not  be  benefited,  say,  by  taking  a  $r.,(^")0  policy? 

Judge  Mack.  He  would  not  be  much  benefited. 

A  Member.  He  would  not  be  much  benefited  by  taking  that  policy. 
Now,  if  he  does  not  take  any  policy,  he  avoids  tlu'  ]>ayment  of  fhe 
l)remium  on  the  basis  of  six  or  seven  dollars  a  thousand.  It  would 
cost  him,  say,  for  the  four  months,  twenty-four  or  twenty-five  dol- 
lars. 

Judge  Mack.  Yes;  and  he  runs  the  risk  during  that  time  of  becom 
ing  totally  disabled.    Now.  if  all  he  want-^  is  $.?.000,  it  is,  of  course, 
immaterial,  but  suppose  he  wants  to  take  eventually  $10,000,  and 


52  LIFE    INSUEANCE,   ETC.,   FOR    SOLDTERS   AND    SAILOES, 

he  savs,  "Well,  I  will  be  satisfied  with  this  $5,000  now  and  I  will 
take  $10,000  boiriniiin^  February  12,  1018.-'  If  he  should  become 
totally  disabled  before  that  date  he  would  get  the  $25  monthly  for 
his  life,  but  he  could  not  increase  that  amount  for  total  disability 
by  taking  the  insurance  thereafter.  If  he  shoidd  die  before  February 
12,  1918,  of  course  he  could  not  increase  that  insurance.  The  $10,000 
insurance  would  not  go  into  effect  on  February  12  if  he  died  before 
February  12.  His  automatic  insurance  of  $25  monthly  would  be  in 
force.  But  if  he  intends  to  take  $10,000  on  February  12,  he  would 
better  take  it  right  away,  even  though  it  cost  him  a  little  more  for  a 
period  of  three  and  a  half  or  four  months,  because  if  he  waits  he  is 
taking  the  chances  of  intervening  disabilit}'  or  death,  in  Avhich  case 
he  will  not  get  the  increased  amount  that  he  wants.  Now,  if  he 
wants  only  $4,000  of  insurance,  he  need  not  bother. 

A  Member.  All  he  would  have  to  do  if  he  wanted  more  would  be  to 
make  his  application  dated  from  February  12.  That  would  not 
interfere  with  his  temporary  insurance. 

Judge  Mack.  No;  he  could  not  get  his  insurance  from  February 
if  he  dies  in  the  meantime.  You  know  a  man  can  not  apj^ly  for  the  in- 
surance to  become  effective  after  his  death.     [Laughter.] 

A  Membei?.  I  understand,  but  he  would  get  it  temporarily. 

Judge  Mack.  No  ;  here  is  the  problem  I  was  trying  to  state :  It  was 
not  quite  the  question  that  was  asked.  A  man  eventually  wants 
$10,000  before  this  four  months'  time  is  up,  so  he  says  to  himself,  "I 
will  take  this  insurance  beginning  February  12  and  I  will  save  that 
four  months'  insurance  premium.''  Now,  if  he  wants  to  save  that 
four  months'  insurance  premium  he  can  do  it,  but  he  is  taking  these 
chances,  that  he  may  become  totally  disabled,  or  that  he  may  die 
before  February  12.  If  he  does,  he  will  get  the  $25  a  month,  but 
he  can  not  take  the  ten  thousand  insurance  against  total  disability  if 
he  becomes  totally  disabled  before  February  12,  and  he  can  not  insure 
against  death  if  he  dies  before  that  time.  Now,  if  he  becomes  totally 
disabled,  he  can  still  take  his  ten  thousand  insurance  against  death  on 
February  12,  but  it  w^on't  give  him  an  increase  in  his  total  disability 
insurance.  It  will  become  effective  only  when  he  dies;  he  will  not 
get  the  $57.50  for  his  total  disability,  but  oidy  the  $25. 

A  Member.  He  will  get  the  twenty-five  until  he  dies,  and  the  fam- 
ily gets  the  fifty-seven  fifty. 

Judge  Mack.  Yes. 

Another  Member.  In  order  to  save  insurance  premius,  insurance 
for  forty-five  hundred  dollars  between  now  and  February  12.  He 
wants  $10,000  insurance  from  now  on.  Can  he  take  out  two  policies 
now,  one  for  fortv-five  hundred  dollars  and  the  difference  between 
that  and  $10,000.  ' 

Judge  ISIack.  No:  the  moment  he  takes  out  any  policy  from  now 
on.  his  automatic  insurance  is  at  an  end;  in  other  words,  under  the 
law.  as  it  is  written,  he  can  not  get  the  automatic  insurance  and  also 
get  a  policy  for  any  amount  at  the  same  time.  The  two  do  not  run 
at  the  same  time. 

The  Member.  The  thing  to  do  is  to  tell  them  to  write  their  policy 
now  for  as  much  as  they  want.  Suppose  we  tell  him  he  can  take  out 
ten  thousand,  and  if  he  wants  to  take  a  thousand  we  can  go  into 
details  and  explain  to  him. 


I 


UFF,    INSURANCE,    ETC.,    FOR    SOLDIERS   AND   SAILORS.  53 

Judge  Mack.  ThntV  just  wliat  1  say.  1  would  liy  to  get  every 
fellow  to  take  out  at  least  foity-five  huiKlre<l  dollars  and  make  it 
eifective  immediately.  Tiiat  is  mueh  simpler;  everything  would  bo 
much  better  for  the  man,  his  family,  and  the  bureau;  but  tliere  are 
lots  of  ftdlows  who  do  not  want  to  take  out  forty-five  hundred  d<il- 
lars,  and  when  you  go  to  those  fellows  you  mu.st  explain.  I  would 
certainly  advise  the  men.  because  that's  mighty  honest  advice,  to 
take  for(y-fi\e  hundred  <loIlais  insurance.  I  would  he  glad  to  have 
everv  man  in  the  service  carrying  at  Iea.st  fort.v-five  hundred  dollars. 
It  gives  him  little  enough,  and  for  his  family  it  is  the  best  thing,  and 
even  if  he  has  no  family  it  is  the  best  thing,  because  after  the  war  he 
iiu\y  get  married  and  have  a  family.  You  do  not  go  astray  when  you 
;^.dvise  him  to  take  at  least  forty-five  hundred. 

A  Mkjiber.  Is  no  premium  required  after  a  man  becomes  totally 
disabled  ? 

Judge  Mack.  Xo.  The  moment  a  man  becomes  totally  and  per- 
manently disabled  his  policy  is  due  just  the  same  as  if  he  dies.*  Ilis 
))olic3'  is  matured,  but  of  course  it  is  ])aid  out  only  in  installments.  I 
mean  it's  all  oAving  from  that  moment  on  by  the  Government,  and  it's 
dua  in  240  monthly  installments. 

A  Member.  That  is  not  expressly  stated  in  the  bill,  but  inferen- 
tially. 

ffudge  Mack,  les;  exactl3\  The  fact  that  the  policy  matures  is  in 
itself  a  statement  of  a  cessation  of  premiums  Ijecause  you  do  not  pay 
for  insurance  that  is  due. 

A  Me.aiivku.  Your  statement.  Judge,  of  total  and  permanent  dis- 
ability— suppose  a  man  is  pronoimced  totally  and  pernunicmtly  dis- 
abled by  a  board  of  physicians,  and  thereafter  it  develops  that  he 
has  recovered  somewhat;  would  he  still  be  considered  under  that 
condition,  or  would  that  word  "  permanent '"  come  in  :  and  if  so,  what 
is  the  e fleet? 

JuDCE  Mack.  That  is  a  problem. 

A  Member.  That's  got  to  be  settled. 

Judge  Mack.  And  I  think  the  bureau  will  settle  the  problem  lib- 
erally. 

A  Member.  Can  insurance  be  taken  out  after  February  12? 

Judge  Mack.  No,  sir;  not  by  a  man  who  was  in  service  on  October 
15.  A  num  w  ho  enters  the  service  at  any  time  after  October  15  has 
120  days  from  the  time  he  enters  the  active  .service  to  take  out  the 
insiu'ance.  A  man  who  was  in  the  service  on  October  15  has  120  days 
from  that  time,  alid  that  120  days  ends  on  Februtiry  12. 

Prof.  Lindsay.  There  is  a  questi(Ui  that  can  now  be  answered,  I 
think.  It  has  been  asked  by  several  men  this  afternoon  with  respect 
to  approximately  the  cost  of  conversion  of  this  insurance  at  the  end 
of  the  war  into  endowment  insurance. 

Mr.  Young,  will  you  give  us  approximately  the  cost  of  two  or 
three  age  periods,  say  21,  25,  and  30,  if  you  can,  of  endowment  in- 
surance per  thousand.  I  think  you  gave  those  figures  the  other  da}', 
but  if  you  can  gi\e  them  approximately  now,  several  men  have 
asked  how  much  it  would  cost  to  carry  $10.0(X)  insurance  converted 
into  endow  nu>nt  iusuraiu'e  at  ages  21.  25,  and  30,  say. 

Mr.  YouNo.  Twentv-vear  endowments?    Al)out  $40  a  vear.  age  21. 


54  LITE   INSURANCE,   ETC.,  FOR   SOLDIERS  AND   SAILORS. 

Prof.  Lindsay.  Forty  dollars  a  thousand?  That  would  be  $4:0§ 
for  $10,000  at  age  21? 

Judge  Mack.  A  20-year  endowment,  you  know,  is  a  very  expensive 
thing.  A  20-3-ear  endowment  is  a  great  luxury.  A  man  coming  out 
of  the  Army  at  25  that  wants  to  protect  himself  against  old  age  docs 
not  need  anything  better  than  a  40-year  endownnent,  not  a  20-year 
endowment.  A  40-year  endowment  would  cost  less  than  $18  a  thou- 
sand. 

A  Member.  As  I  understand  the  law,  there  is  no  provision  yet 
made  that  that  20-year  endowment  could  become  a  lump  sum  or 
spread  over  20  years.  If  it  is  spread  over  20  years  you  are  not  mak- 
ing any  money  on  it. 

Judge  Mack.  Why? 

A  Member.  The  remaining  money  for  the  20  years  is  still  on  de- 
posit.   T\'lio  gets  the  interest  on  it? 

Judge  Mack.  I  don't  quite  catch  your  problem. 

A  Me3iber.  Suppose,  if  you  convert  the  policy  into  a  20-year  en- 
dowment policy. 

Judge  Mack.  Suppose  a  man  is  25  when  he  wants  to  convert,  and 
he  wants  a  20-year  endowment  policy,  which  is  expensive  and  a  great 
luxury.    His  policy  is  dil.e  w'hen  he  is  45.    Is  that  right? 

A  MEaiBEE.  Yes. 

Judge  Mack.  It  is  not  going  to  be  paid  to  him  in  a  lum_p  sum. 
Congress  has  provided  that  it  shall  not  be  paid  in  a  lump  sum,  but  in 
20  annual  installments;  $10,000  on  the  3|  per  cent  basis  brings 
$57.50  a  month  straight  over  a  period  of  20  years.  Now,  if  the  man 
lives  until  he  is  65  he  will  have  gotten  all  of  that,  and  if  he  dies  be- 
fore G5  his  family  will  get  wdiatever  he  has  not  got,  just  the  same 
whether  it  is  endowment  insurance  or  life  insurance.  Does  that 
answer  your  question  ? 

A  Member.  Judge  ^lack,  there  may  be  cases  in  which  men  w^ant 
insurance  and  who  have  no  relatives  of  the  classes  prescribed.  Will 
they  be  allowed  to  take  insurance? 

Judge  Mack.  Yes;  they  may  take  the  insurance,  and  in  case  of 
total  disability  it  w^ill  be  payable  to  themselves,  and  in  the  future 
they  may  get  some  of  those  relatives  that  they  haven't  now. 
f  Laught<3r.]  If  they  should  be  so  unfortunate  as  to  acquire  no  such 
relatives  and  to  have  nobody  whatsoever  v.ithin  the  permitted  class, 
and  if  Congress  adheres  to  the  rule  laid  down  in  the  present  law — 
which  I  did  not  favor,  do  not  favor,  and  shall  attempt  to  get 
changed — I  can  not  say  with  what  success — that  man's  policy  would 
go  to  his  Government,  because  he  has  nobody  else  in  the  world  to 
get  it. 

A  Member.  In  that  case,  as  a  practical  matter  should  we  write  in 
that  situation  in  the  policy? 

Judge  Mack.  No;  that  is  taken  care  of  by  the  law.  You  do  not 
need  to  Avrite  anything  in  the  policy.  If  you  will  look  at  that  bulletin 
No.  1  ^ving  the  terms  and  conditions  and  giving  you  a  sample  policy, 
you  will  find  in  it  tliis  statement : 

"  If  no  beneficiary  within  the  permitted  class  be  designated  by  the 
insured,  either  in  the  insured's  lifetime  or  by  his  last  Avill  and  testa- 
ment, or  if  any  above  designated  beneficiary  is  or  "becomes  disquali- 
fied or  does  not  survive  the  insured,  the  insurance  (or  if  any  above 
designated  })eneficiarv  shall  survive  the  insured,  but  shall  not  receive 


UFE   INSURANCE,   ETC.,   FOR   SOLDIERS   AND   SAILORS.  65 

all  the  installments,  then  the  remaining  installments)  shall  he  pay- 
able to  such  person  or  persons  witiiin  the  pcrmitfed  class  of  heiie- 
lici;)ries  as  would  under  the  laws  of  the  insured's  place  of  residence? 
be  entitled  to  his  personal  property  in  case  of  intestacy." 

Now,  the  man  can  change  that  whenever  he  pleases,  because  ho 
can  change  any  beneficiary  whenever  he  pleases,  and  he  can  tell  the 
department  "  I  said  my  Avife  shall  get  it,  and  then  the  next  of  kin 
shall  get  it.  My  next  of  kin  will  be  my  children  and  I  do  not  want 
my  children  to  get  it.  I  want  my  property  to  go  to  somebody  else 
if  my  wife  dies  or  after  slie  dies.''  He  can  change  that  whenever 
and  as  often  as  he  pleases,  but  if  he  then  dies  and  his  wife  dies  be- 
fore him  and  he  has  no  next  of  kin  within  the  classes  permitted 
under  the  hnv,  and  there  is  nobody  therefore  who  can  take  the  in- 
suj-ancc  under  the  law,  the  insurance  falls  to  the  ground  and  the 
Government  does  not  have  to  pay  anybody ;  except  only  this,  that  if 
he  has  converted  his  insurance,  and  if  therefore  ho  has  a  kind  of 
insurance  that  he  could  have  sold  out  to  the  Government  the  day 
before  he  died — what  we  teclinically  call  insurance  that  has  a  re- 
serve value,  an  insurance  that  has  a  cash  surrender  value,  an  in- 
surance that  does  not  eat  itself  up  as  a  term  insurance  does,  an 
insurance  in  which  there  is  something  more  than  insurance  by  the 
year,  in  which  you  make  an  investment  for  the  future — and  that  is 
the  kind  of  insurance  which  it  will  be  converted  intcj — if  that  is  the 
kind  of  insurance  that  he  has,  his  estate  will  be  paid  the  whole  re- 
serve value;  his  estate  will  get  whatever  he  could  have  sold  out  for 
before  his  death.  That  is  the  only  value  of  the  policy  if  there  are  no 
beneficiaries  within  the  class. 

A  Membli;.  When  the  policy  is  first  gotten  for  the  man  who  has 
no  relatives,  could  he  write  down  in  the  blank  the  name  of  the 
beneficiary  in  the  blank  left  for  the  name  of  the  beneficiary  that  fact? 

Judge  ISIack.  Write  down  nothing  in  that.  If  he  does  not  want 
to  designate  anybody  he  does  not  have  to,  because  the  printed  part  of 
the  policy  says  that  it  goes  to  his  next  of  kin,  and  if  he  hasn't  any 
next  of  kin  at  his  death,  then  it  automatically  goes  to  the  Govern- 
ment, because  there  is  nobod^^  the  Government  has  obligated  itself 
to  pay. 

A  Membei;.  a  number  of  men  have  not  bean  able  to  gi\  e  their  ages 
to  me.  How  would  we  handle  that  situation?  They  don't  know 
when  they  were  born  nor  where. 

Judge  ISTack.  The  only  thing  that  you  can  do  in  those  cases  is  to 
get  their  best  judgment  as  to  their  ages  and  to  have  them  endeavor 
the  best  they  can  to  get  their  ages,  and  advise  them  to  give  them  a 
little  too  high  rather  than  too  low,  because  if  they  give  them  too  low 
and  it  is  afterwards  determined  that  they  have  given  them  too  low 
and  they  die,  they  would  only  have  the  amount  <>f  insurance  that  the 
sum  that  they  paid  would  l)uy  at  their  proper  age.  Suppose  it  costs 
twice  as  much  at  age  40  as  it  does  at  age  20,  and  suppose  a  man  says. 
"  My  age  is  20,"  and  he  pays,  say,  $7  tor  $10,000  instead  of  paying 
$14."  Now,  that  man  afterwards  is  discovered  to  be  40  instead  of 
20;  and  they  would  get  on!}'  $5,000  of  insuratice  instead  of  $10,000, 
because  that  is  all  that  $7  would  have  paid  for.  I  give  that  as  a 
striking  and  impossible  examj)le  to  illustrate  merely  that  it  is  wis(> 
for  the  man  who  doesn't  know  his  age  or  the  date  of  his  birth — and 


56  LIFE    INSURANCE,   ETC.,   FOR    SOLDIERS   AND    SAILORS. 

there  are  plenty  of  those  men — it  is  much  t)etter  to  give  his  tige  too 
high  than  to  give  it  too  low. 

A  ^Iembek.  Suppose  a  man  is  permanently,  though  not  totally,  dis- 
abled. He  nnist  pay  the  full  premium  regardless  of  his  re(^uced  earn- 
ing capacity  ? 

Judge  Mack.  Yes. 

A  Member.  1  notice  in  the  application  for  insurance  that  we  au- 
thoi'ize  the  necessary  deduction  from  our  pay.  Now,  in  case  we 
ck'cide  not  to  carry  that  insurance,  what  is  necessary,  written  notice? 

Judge  Mack.  Yes. 

A  Me3iber.  That  is  sufficient? 

Judge  Mack.  Yes.  A  man  can  send  in  notice  to  tlie  War  Risk 
Bureau,  ''  I  do  not  want  your  insurance  any  more.'-     That  ends  it. 

A  Member.  Judge  jVIack,  you  stated  that  it  would  be  unnecessary 
in  the  event  of  a  man  Avith  no  dependents  to  put  anyboch^  in  as  a 
benehciary  in  the  application. 

Judge  Mack.  He  does  not  have  to  put  in  anybody  if  he  doesn't 
want  to.  He  can  alv.aj^s  put  in  somebody  afterwards,  because,  as  I 
said  before,  we  have  already  put  in  somebody  for  him..  We  have 
put  in  the  class  that  would  be  entitled  to  his  insurance  in  case  he 
died  intestate. 

A  ^Iember.  I  understand  that,  but  Avouldn't  that  create  an  im- 
])ression  in  the  mind  of  the  bureau  that  the  applicant  has  made  a 
mistake  by  failure  to  state  dependence.  Wouldn't  it  be  better  to 
make  an  explanation  of  the  fact  that  there  was  no  beneficiary  rather 
than  send  it  in  blank  'i 

Judge  Mack.  I  think  not.  The  bureau  might  want  to  ask  in  those 
cases,  but  I  think  it  would  be  better  to  take  it  up  as  an  individual 
matter.  As  Mr.  De  Lanoy  says,  as  to  enlisted  men,  he  would  get 
the  information  from  his  allotment  blank. 

A  Member,  Of  course  you  would  not  liave  that  as  to  an  officer. 

Judge  Mack.  You  see  the  man  insured  in  that  case  would  get  a 
copy  of  his  policy  and  he  woidd  find  that  there  was  a  blank  there 
nnd  if  he  Avants  to  correct  that  all  he  needs  to  do  is  to  send  in  word 
of  his  mistake. 

A  Member.  I  woukl  like  an  interpretation  of  the  Government 
allowance  relative  to  class  A  and  class  R.  Take  a  man  getting  $30 
under  class  A;  he  has  deposited  $15.  Now,  for  one  additional  de- 
jjendent  in  class  B,  he  has  to  allot  one-seventh  of  his  pay.  Suppose 
he  has  two  or  more  dependents  additional  in  class  B.  Would  he 
have  to  allot  one-seventh  for  each  of  those  in  class  B? 

Judge  Mack.  No.  The  total  a]k>tment  to  class  A  need  not  exceed 
(•ne-half  of  his  pay.  The  total  allotment  of  class  B  need  not  exceed 
one-half  of  his  pay  if  he  is  making  no  compulsory  allotment  to  class 
A.  If  he  is  making  a  compulsory  allotment  to  class  A  of  one-half 
of  his  pay,  he  must  then,  if  he  wants  to  get  an  allowance  for  class  B, 
make  an  allotment  to  class  B.  It  Avill  not  be  to  each  person  in  it.  but 
it  must  not  l)e  less  than  $5  a  month  and  it  need  not  be  more  than 
one-seventh  of  his  pay.  That  is  the  most,  but  that  would  be  in  ad- 
dition to  the  half  pay  that  he  allots  to  class  A.  If  this  is  not  clear 
under  the  laAv,  it  will  be  made  so  by  regulation. 

A  Member.  In  a  case  of  this  kind  Avhich  is  liable  to  come  up,  a 
man  enters  the  service  and  has  no  de])endents.  His  mother  and 
father  and  sisters  are  living.     The  father  dies  during  the  term  that 


UFE    INSURANCE,    ETC.,    FOH    SOI.DTF.RS    AND    SAILORS.  57 

hi'  i.s  ill  the  service,  and  in  oidcr  foi-  his  mother  jiiul  sister  to  approach 
(lip  stiindard  <if  living  tliat  thev  did  j)rior  to  his  term,  it  will  he  neces- 
sary for  that  man  to  contrihntc.  Would  it  he  possihle  for  liim  to  con- 
tinue under  that  class  B  and  tlien  get  the  Government  allowance? 

Judge  Mack.  I  said  in  anf^ver  to  that  same  question  on  Tuesday 
that  that  is  going  to  be  a  question  of  interpretation  by  the  bureau. 
I  believe  the  buretiu  would  have  a  right,  and  if  they  have  the  right  I 
have  no  doubt  that  they  will  exercise  it  b}^  giving  a  liberal  interpre- 
tation to  those  wonls  that  the  relatives  of  class  B  must  be  dependent 
upon  the  man  and  that  the  amount  to  be  given  shall  not  exceed  the 
amount  hahitually  c(mtributed  by  him  during  dependency.  Now, 
there  is  one  case,  the  case  j'ou  put,  which  is  not  covered  by  the  express 
letter  of  the  law.  It  Avas  covered  by  the  express  letter  of  the  law,  as 
has  been  pointed  out.  with  reference  to  compensation  of  a  widowed 
mother,  who  must  also  be  dependent.  In  reference  to  a  widowed 
n!<:ther  the  law  says  that  she  must  have  been  depen<lent.  or  the  situa- 
tion be  such  that  she  would  have  been  dependent  upon  him.  In  other 
words,  if  at  the  time  of  his  death  there  is  no  widowed  mother,  but  if 
in  the  next  month  the  father  died,  so  that  the  second  month  he  has  a 
widowed  mother,  inasmuch  as  the  amount  to  be  p-.ud  is  to  be  d«^ter 
mined  month  by  month,  that  widowed  mother  would  receive  compen- 
j^ation  provided  she  is  dependent  upon  him.  But  of  course  she  can 
not  be  literally  dependent  ui)on  a  dead  man.  Therefore  the  language 
was  put  in  "  Or  would  have  been  <lependent  upon  him.''  Now,  if  the 
family  relation  is  such  that  she  would  have  l)een  dependent  ui)on  him 
in  life,  as,  for  example,  if  he  were  the  only  son  of  a  father  who  ha<l 
died,  then  she  can  get  that  com])ensation  under  the  compensation 
clause.  Now,  under  the  allotment  and  allowance  sectiim  the  words 
used  are  not  "would  have  been  dependent  upon  him''  or  "that  the 
amount  that  he  would  have  contributed  if  he  had  contributed  any- 
thing because  of  the  dependency,"  but  the  statement  is  "the  amount 
that  he  habitually  contributed  during  dependency."  My  judgment 
is — I  can  not  answer  positively,  because  I  am  not  going  to  be  the  at- 
torney for  the  bureau — but  my  judgment  is  that  those  words  can  lie 
fairly  interpreted  to  mean  the  same  as  the  language  used  in  the  com- 
pensation section,  namely,  that  if  there  is  such  a  condition  that  the 
mother  would  from  month  to  month  be  dependent  upon  him,  that 
then  she  can  got  what  he  normally  wtmld  contribute  during  depend- 
ency to  her,  and  that  would  have  to  be  a  question  to  be  dctennined 
from  all  the  circumstances  of  the  case.  I  do  not  say  that  this  inter- 
pretation can  be  made.  I  do  not  know.  It  is  one  of  the  questions 
that  will  have  to  be  determined  l)y  the  bureau  in  the  future. 

A  Meimher.  Suppose  a  man  has  been  discharged  from  the  Army. 
Of  course,  after  the  war  he  converts  the  policy.  It  is  left  optional  on 
his  part  the  form  he  prefers.  Through  misfortune  or  otherwise, 
remuneration  for  his  labor  in  case  he  is  dependent  upon  his  lalxu- 
ceases.  Is  there  some  i)rovision  made  whereby  he  can  dejiosit  thi- 
policy  until  he  can  take  up  the  payments  again  ( 

Judge  Mack.  No;  payments  are  obligatory  in  an  insurance  policy. 

A  MEivtBER.  Thev  act  as  their  own  collateral,  do  they  not  ? 

Judge  ISIack.  This  is  the  theory  of  insurance.  You  are  insuriui: 
for  the  time  being  and  you  pay  for  the  time.  The  regulations  have 
allowed  you  a  period  of  grace.  In  the  lirst  place,  in  private  com- 
panies they  alv.ays  require  you  to  pay  in  advance.    The  Government 


68  LIFE   INSURAXCE^  ETC.,  FOR  SOLDIEES   AND   SAILORS. 

has  said,  "  TVe  will  trust  you  until  the  end  of  the  month."  The 
Government  says,  "  If  necessarj^,  we  will  trust  you  another  month. 
We  will  give  you  30  days  of  grace  in  which  to  pay."  Now,  under 
this  term  insurance,  just  because  it  is  term  insurance,  just  because, 
as  I  said,  it  is  like  fire  insurance,  from  month  to  month,  at  the  end 
of  the  mouth  there  isn't  anything  left.  You  have  had  what  you  paid 
for,  namely,  the  insurance,  and  there  isn't  anything  left  there  that 
belongs  to  you,  so  there  is  notliing  that  you  could  borrow  from  the 
Government.  There  is  nothing  that  the  Government  could  use  to 
protect  you  if  you  failed  to  pay  after  that,  but  they  are  willing  to 
protect  you  an  additional  month  notwithstanding  that. 

Now,  if  you  have  converted  your  policy  into  one  of  the  other  forms, 
these  other  forms  give  you  more,  for  this  reason,  that  in  addition  to 
buying  prot<'ction  from  month  to  month  you  are  also  buying  an  in- 
vestment. You  are  building  up  something  for  the  future.  Now,  in 
an  endovv'ment  policy  you  are  building  up  a  great  deal  for  the  future. 
You  are  making  a  pure  in%estment  in  addition  to  buying  insurance. 

But  even  in  an  ordinary  life  policy  you  are  building  up  something 
for  the  future  which  in  your  j^ounger  days  is  an  investment.  I  tried 
to  ei:plain  that  life  insurance  is  founded  on  this.  You  contribute  the 
annually  increasing  amount  you  ought  to  pay  for  the  risk  that  the 
insurer  runs  in  carrying  you,  because  as  you  grow  older  the  chances 
of  your  dying  increase.  Now,  the  converted  policy  w(nild  not  be  of 
that  kind'.  The  converted  polic}'^  will  be  the  kind  that  companies 
ordinarily  issue.  We  will  take  the  cheapest  form,  ordinary  life. 
You  are  going  to  pay  the  same  amount  during  3'our  whole  life,  but 
to  pay  the  siime  amount  during  3'our  whole  life  means  that  in  your 
younger  days  you  are  paying  more  than  the  cost  of  the  insurance, 
and  in  your  old  age,  you  are  paying  less  than  cost.  If  it  costs  to  carry 
$1,000  $8  and  you  are  paying  $15,  what  is  that  $7  that  you  are 
paying  ?  I  will  explain  to  you  what  that  is.  That  $7  put  away  and 
earning  3J  per  cent  compound  interest  w^ill  represent  the  amount  that 
the  company  v.-ill  need  in  your  older  years  to  make  up  the  deficiency 
cost.  We  will  say  that  to-day  it  costs  to  carry  you  $8,  and  j^ou  are 
payirig  $15.  The  day  will  come  when  it  will  cost  $20  to  carry  you, 
still  you  will  pay  only  $15;  in  this  way  the  company  can  afford  to 
carry  you  for  tlie  same  amount  each  year.  In  your  younger  years 
you  pay  more.  In  your  later  years  you  pay  less.  If  you  live  longer 
than  the  average  of  your  age,  it  will  cost  you  more  than  the  com- 
panies and  you  expect.  If  you  die  earlier,  then  it  costs  the  company 
more.  All  insurance  is  based  upon  the  fact  that  on  the  average  the 
men  insured  are  going  to  live  at  least  a  certain  number  of  years.  In 
fact  the  companies  have  taken  a  low  period  and  their  polic.yholdcrs 
are  going  to  live  longer  than  that  on  the  average  and  that  explains  the 
profit. 

MEN  IN  TRAINING  CAMPS. 

Director  De  Lanoy.  Gentlemen, in  the  matter  of  members  of  training 
camps,  officers'  training  camj^s,  they  are  under  the  act  and  may  there- 
fore apply  for  insurance  l:>efore  they  are  discharged  from  tlie  camps. 
Those  who  do  not  get  a  commission,  however,  must  arrange  to  pay 
premiums  after  leaving  the  camps,  to  the  War-Risk  Bureau,  as  natu- 
rally insurance  lapses  if  payments  are  not  made.  Men  who  have 
taken  out  insurance  and  who  receive  commissions  must  notify  the 
Bureau  of  War-Risk  Insurance,  so  that  proper  entries  of  rank,  com- 


UFE   INSUBAXCE,  ETC.,   FOR   SOLDIERvS   AND   SAILORS.  59 

pan  J,  ami  regiment  may  be  made  on  their  policies,  and  arrangements 
made  for  deduction  of  premiums  from  their  pay.  Afen  in  these  train- 
ing canii)s  are  sui/jct  to  compulsory  allotment  and  their  families 
entitled  to  family  benefits.  Unless  their  families  apply  for  it,  men 
in  the  present  orticers"  training  camps  are  exempted  from  the  com- 
pulsory ulh-tments  in  view  of  the  fact  that  the  camps  t<?rminate  on 
November  2G.  Men  in  the  training  cami)s  are  entitled  to  c<jmpen^a- 
tion  under  the  act,  and  regulations  Avill  be  made  along  these  lines  by 
the  biu'eau, 

ALLOTMENT  AND  ALLOWANCE  FORMS. 

Judge  Mack.  Notv,  gentlemen,  let  us  take  up  this  allotment  and 
allowance  blank. 

A  Memrek.  I  want  to  call  attention  to  what  might  be  misunder- 
stood in  the  blank.  The  voluntary  allotments  are  now,  of  course, 
paid  by  the  various  bureaus.  Navy  Department,  etc-  Now,  on  these 
blanks  here  it  says  that  allotments  must  be  made  unless  a  special 
exemption  is  granted  by  the  bureau. 

Judge  Mack.  That  is  what  I  am  going  to  explain,  because  the  in- 
s-tructions  are  on  the  opposite  side,  and  the  instructions  explain  all 
of  that.  But  I  am  going  through  the  instructions  first  to  call  your 
attention  to  it. 

The  first  thing  is  the  penalty.  I  call  your  attention  to  that.  The 
men  must  know  that  if  they  are  going  to  lie  willfully  about  the  filling 
up  of  these  blanks  it  is  a  serious  matter.  In  connection  with  that  let 
me  turn  to  the  other  side:  "My  full  name  is,"  "Home  address," 
"  Date  of  birth,"  "Age  nearest  birthday."  Now,  of  course,  if  a  man 
does  not  know,  he  ought  to  say,  "As  near  as  I  know ;  as  near  as  I  can 
judge,"  or  something  of  that  kind.  "  Present  rank,"  "  Present  sta- 
ifion."  "  Date  of  enlistment." 

A  Me31ber.  Current  enlistment,  time  drafted  into  the  Federal 
service  ? 

Judge  Mack.  The  date  of  draft  into  the  Federal  service;  yes.  Of 
course  that  isn't  so  impoitant  for  the  men  who  are  in  at  the  present 
time.  That  is  important  for  the  men  that  come  in  after  this  act  goes 
into  effect.  It  is  simply  a  question  of  the  date  from  which  these 
things  begin,  and  all  the  men  who  are  in  on  the  6th  of  October  or 
1st  of  November  will  be  affected  as  to  the  allotments  anyway. 

NoWj  note  the  next.     This  is  his  statement: 

I  hereby  certify  that  the  folh)\vinR-nnnioil  persons  anil  no  otliers  como  witliin 
the  olass  ol"  uiy  wife,  fonner  wife  divoifed,  or  child  as  doliiu'd  in  the  act,  niui 
ent1tle<l  thiTeiinder  to  coniimlsory  aUotinent.  and  that  the  inforiiiation  statc«<! 
opposite  thoir  respo<'tivt>  names  is  ronort.  (If  us  to  any  of  th«'Si'  tliere  Is  no 
person  so  relatetl  to  you,  wi-ite  "  None  "  in  the  name  eoluniti.) 

Now,  the  point  about  that  is  we  want  to  know  whether  a  man  lias 
these  people;  and  if  so.  the  information  in  regard  to  them;  and  if 
not,  we  want  him  definitely  to  say  that  he  ha>^n't  any.  We  don't  want 
him  to  come  back  afterwards  and  try  to  sneak  out  of  that  by  sayinir, 
'•  I  did  not  say  anything.  1  did  not  deny  that  1  iiad  a  wife.  1  .simply 
did  not  give  her  name."  We  want  a  positive  statement,  and  we 
have  told  you  how  to  get  that  positive  statement.  I  do  not  mean  to 
say  that  he  has  got  to  write  "None"  a  half  dozen  times.  He  can 
make  a  bracket  tliere,  signifying  wife  and  children  or  use  ditto  marks 
or  write  "  None  "  as  to  all  of  them.  It  is  immaterial,  but  we  want 
the  information  in  the  answer — yes  or  no.     He  has  or  he  has  not; 


60  LIFE    INSURANCE,   ETC.,   FOR    SOLDIERS   AND    SAILORS. 

nnd  if  he  has  not.  we  want  him  to  say  so.  If  he  has,  we  want  him  to 
give  the  information. 

XoAv,  to  go  hack  to  the  other  .side.  "  Form  1  is  to  be  filled  out  for 
each  enlisted  man  in  the  mijitar}'  or  naval  forces  of  the  United  States 
('enlisted  men  here  means  either  a  male  oi-  female')" — that  answers 
the  question  as  to  the  yeowomen — "■  enrolled  or  drrtfted  into  active 
ser^■ice  and  includes  noncommissioned  and  petty  officers  and  members 
of  training  camps  authorized  b}^  law." 

Of  course  where  v>e  say  ''Date  of  enlistment"  they  can  sa}'^  the 
time  they  went  in. 

A  ]Membi:i{.  They  have  enlisted  for  three  months. 

Judge  Mack.  Before  going  into  the  training  camp? 

A  Member.  They  enlist  for  the  period  of  the  camp. 

Judge  Mack.  Then  they  are  enlisted  men ;  that  answers  that. 

A  Member.  This  is  to  be  filled  out  in  ink? 

Judge  JVIack.  Yes,  sir. 

A  Member.  I  would  like  to  call  attention  to  what  is  a  serious  omis- 
sion on  this  blank.     There  is  no  place  to  gi^  e  organization. 

Another  Member.  No  soldier  is  permitted  to  sign  any  paper  in  the 
Army  without  putting  his  rank  afterwards,  so  that  when  he  signs  at 
the  bottom  of  a  page  he  Avill  always  put  his  rank  underneath. 

Judge  Mack.  Then  when  he  signs  his  name,  you  liave  all  the  in- 
formation. 

A  Member.  It  says  here,  "  I  hereby  make  voluntary  allotments  in 
addition  to  compulsory  allotments,  as  follows."  It  seems  to  me  that 
that  should  be  in  the  first  part  where  he  makes  the  compulsory  allot- 
ment, because,  if  I  understand  you,  if  he  gave  $20  a  month  to  his 
wife  before  he  made  this  allotment  the  Government  will  only  give 
him  $5.  He  gives  $15,  and  the  Government  gives  him  $5.  That  is 
how  I  understood  you. 

Judge  Mack.  Wait;  you  have  a  total  misunderstanding.  Let  me 
get  it  clear.  Otiiers  may  have  the  same  understanding.  I  was  talk- 
ing about  the  divorced  wife,  not  about  the  wife.  What  you  under- 
stood about  the  wife  referred  only  to  the  former  wife  divorced. 
I  said  as  to  the  former  wife  divorced,  that  the  highest  amount  that 
she  could  get  was  the  amount  of  the  alimony.  Up  to  that  she  can 
get  the  same  as  a  wife,  and  has  both  an  allotment  and  an  allowance. 
But  if  the  allotment  alone  is  sufficient  to  pay  the  order,  the  amount 
of  her  alimony  decree,  then  she  does  not  g:et  any  allowance.  She 
can  not  get  more  than  her  alimony  decree  provides  that  she  shall  get, 
and  the  allotment  must  be  used  first  and  then  the  allowance.  That 
is,  if  the  allotment  is  not  used  by  the  present  wife  and  children. 

Judge  Mack.  A  wife  and  childi-on  are  absolutely  entitled  to  the 
allowances  that  are  fixed  in  the  bill.  The  only  way  they  could  be 
deprived  of  them  would  be  if  they  waived  them  or  if  the  Government 
for  some  reason  exeiiii)ts  a  man  and  takes  away  the  allowance.  Oth- 
erwise the  wife  and  diildren  get  the  amount  fixed  by  laAV.  More- 
over, the  man  nuist  give  them  the  allotment  in  addition  to  what  the 
Government  gives  them ;  that  is  compidsory. 

A  Member.  He  must  also  fill  out,  then,  this  bottom  blank  about 
allowances. 

Judge  Mack.  Certainly;  because  they  get  the  allowance  only  on 
application.    A  woman,  even  a  woman  and  children,  do  not  get  the 


LIFE    INSUKAXCK,    lyrC,    I'OH    SOI.fUr.li.S    AND    SAILORS.  61 

allowance  iinh'ss  tlic  :i|)i)Ii<'Mli(>ii  is  made  f<  )■  it.  They  p;('t  the  allot- 
ment, hut  not  the  alloAvanee  unless  an  application  is  made  for  it. 
That  application  may  he  made  hy  the  man;  it  may  he  made  by  the 
Avoman  herself;  it  may  he  made  by  the  children;  it  may  be  made  in 
their  name  ami  on  their  behalf  by  anybody  else. 

A  MKMiiKit.  I  know  of  a  case  in  onr  company  where  a  man  was 
married  last  year  in  November.  sa3\  and  he  and  his  wife  parted  in 
the  sprin<j:.  fie  knows  tliat  he  has  <j:ot  a  wife,  and  he  knows  that  his 
wife  was  j)!-e.£rnant  wlien  she  left  him,  but  he  does  not  know  her 
wherealjouts. 

Judge  Mack.  He  had  better  ^ive  as  much  information  as  he  can. 
T'^nder  those  circumstances  he  had  better  say  that  her  last  phice  of  resi- 
dence was  so-and-so.  The  hist  he  heard  of  her  was  so-and-so,  and 
tliat  he  may  have  a  child  and  that  he  may  not.  The  last  he  knows 
■was  that  she  was  preirnant,  and  that  she  left  him  at  such  and  such  a 
time  and  at  such  and  such  a  place.  That  would  give  sufficient  infor- 
mation to  investigate;  but  he  must  give  the  best  information  that  he 
can.  If  he  can  not  give  exact  information,  let  him  state  that  it  is 
not  exact.  Let  him  be  honest;  that  is  the  main  thing.  Let  us  keep 
on  with  this  form. 

The  first  thing  is  the  relationship,  Avife.  child,  and  divorced  wife; 
then  the  post-office  address,  date  of  birth.  The,y  want  to  get  the  ages, 
the  ages  of  the  children;  not  the  age  of  the  wife  or  of  the  divorced 
wife."  That  isn't  material.  It  is  the  ages  of  the  children  that  is 
material,  because  tlu'  childi-en  do  not  get  these  allowances  after  they 
have  reached  the  age  of  18  years  urdess  they  are  insane,  idiotic,  or 
permanently  helpless.  Therefore  you  will  find,  turning  back  to  the 
instructions,  that  "child"'  includes  certain  people,  and  you  will  find 
that  if  any  child  is  permanently  helpless  you  should  write  in  the  re- 
marks column,  "helpless.""  The  reason  for  that  is  that  if  the  child 
is  over  18  and  is  still  helpless  the  allowance  goes  on.  If  the  child  is 
18  and  is  not  permanently  helpless,  then  the  pay  as  to  that  child 
ceases. 

Of  course,  if  the  children  are  married  they  do  not  get  the  money, 
and  therefore  the  question  is  asked  as  to  whether  they  are  married  or 
not.  And  so  if  a  divoi-ced  wife  hns  remarried  she  does  not  get  any- 
thing. It  is  only  until  she  remarries;  and  the  amount  payable 
monthly  by  court  order  nmst  be  given,  showing  what  she  is  to  get. 

Now,  the  reason  for  other  information  is  noted  in  the  instructions. 
"  '  Child  '  includes  child  legally  adopted  before  April  G,  1017.  or  more 
than  six  months  before  enlistuient.  whichever  date  is  the  later.'' 
That  is,  if  a  man  enlists  on  October  -20.  and  he  had  ado|)ted  a  child 
six  months  before  he  enlisted,  that  would  be  April  '20  instead  of 
April  (>,  that  child  would  ct»me  within  the  act.  The  point  about  it  is 
that  Congress  did  not  want  a  nuin  to  adopt  a  bunch  of  children  in 
order  to  get  allowances  for  them.  So  a  period  of  six  months  before 
enlistment  was  fi.xed.  If  a  man  had  ado])ted  children  b-^fore  that 
time  they  are  just  as  much  entitled  to  his  allowance  as  if  they  were 
his  own  childi'en.  So,  too,  a  ste])ihild.  if  a  member  of  his  household, 
is  the  same  as  a  child;  and  c^'rtain  illegitimate  children,  too.  The 
law  states  the  exact  situation  as  to  illegitimate  childien.  They  nnist 
be,  or  must  have  been,  acknowledged  in  wi-iting  by  the  father,  or  a 
court  must  ha^e  ordered  him  to  contribute  to  th.'ir  support. 


62  LIFE   IlfSUBAXCE^   ETC.,   FOE  SOLDIERS  AND  SAILORS. 

A  Me.mrer.  You  need  to  put  nothing  for  them  but  "Ack.,"  if  3-ou 
luive  acknowledged  or  are  "willing  to  acknowledge  them. 

Judge  Mack.   That  is  all. 

A  Meaiber.  If  it  correct  that  this  blank  is  the  only  blank  to  be  filled 
out  for  allotment  and  allowance? 

Judge  Mack.   Yes;  both  in  one. 

Another  Member.  Suppose  I  started  to  fill  in  this  blank.  Under 
the  head  of  pay,  we  will  say  $30.  Now,  besides  a  wife  and  child,  we 
will  say  he  has  a  grandmother  or  mother.  Would  he  put  in  the 
column  of  allotment  anything  in  that  case? 

Judge  Mack.  If  he  wants  to  allot  to  her. 

A  Me?jber.  lie  must  allot  $5,  must  he  not  ? 

Judge  Mack.  It  is  not  a  question  of  what  he  must  allot,  it  is  a 
question  of  what  he  wants  to  allot ;  the  sum  total  of  what  he  wants  to 
allot  each  one,  and  if  he  wants  to  he  can  add  an  allotment  for  tlie 
wife  and  children  over  and  above  the  compulsory  allotment. 

A  Member.  Would  the  bureau  pay  that? 

Judge  Mack.  Yes;  it  will  deduct  it  from  his  pay  if  that  is  sufficient. 

A  Membeji,  I  thought  these  outside  matters  would  be  deducted  by 
other  departments. 

Judge  Mack,  No;  by  the  bureau. 

A  Member.  Suppose  he  wants  to  give  $5  to  his  grandmother  and  $5 
to  his  mother;  that  is  $10.  That  being  the  case,  the  bureau  would 
send  to  the  mother  $15  and  $15  to  the  grtmdmother. 

Judge  Mack.  What  do  j'ou  mean  by  saying  the  bureau  would 
send  it? 

A  Member.  He  makes  an  arrangement  to  send  some  money  to  these 
people.     How  much  will  the  bureau  send? 

Jbidge  Mack.  How  much  additional  allowance  will  it  send? 

A  Member.  I  know  what  they  are  goin^to  send  to  the  wife.  They 
will  send  $-10  to  the  Avife  and  child.  Now,  he  wants  to  make  an 
arrangement  to  send  $5  to  the  mother  and  $5  to  the  grandmother. 

Juclgc  Mack.  The  mother  and  grandmother  together  will  get  a 
check  for  the  $5  allotment  apiece,  which  makes  $10,  and  $20  from 
the  Government,  which  makes  a  total  of  $30  for  mother  and  grand - 
jnother  together, 

A  Member.  Who  will  get  that  check,  the  mother  or  the  gi-and- 
mother  ? 

Judge  Mack.  Each  will  get  a  check;  the  mother  will  get  at  least 
$5  and  the  grandmother  at  least  $5.  1  should  say  that  each  would 
get  $15, 

A  Member.  Is  there  any  special  form  of  application  for  allow- 
ance and  allotments? 

Judge  Mack,  That  is  what  you  have  before  j^ou. 

A  AIember.  I  mean  for  the  beneficiary. 

Judge  Mack,  No;  this  goes  to  the  Government,  The  form  for 
the  beneficiary  to  sign  is  not  yet  prepared, 

A  Member,  Is  one  to  be  attached  to  this? 

Judge  Mack.  No  ;  this  goes  out  to  the  man.  Of  course,  the  example 
that  you  gave  did  not  call  for  more  than  $50  from  the  Government, 
I  only  want  to  repeat  that  the  Government  does  not  add  over  $5<> 
under  any  circumstances. 


LIFE   INSURANCE;   ETC.,   FOR   SOLDIERS   AND   SAILORS.  G3 

Now,  coming  back  to  (he,  form,  you  seo  the  statement  that  the 
allotment  of  pay  is  compulsory.  The  instruction  shexit  tells  the  rea- 
.son  and  the  amount  of  the  compnlsor}'  allotment. 

Then  comes  the  statement  that  I  went  over  with  you  this  mornin"^, 
that  marriage  will  be  conclusively  presumed  if  the  man  and  woman 
have  lived  together  in  the  open  acknowledged  relation  of  husband 
and  wife  during  two  years  before  this  time.  Of  course,  there  ought 
to  be  added,  "  unless  you  have  a  husT)and  or  wife  living." 

A  Memti>j?.  a  question  in  regard  to  that:  What  form  of  such 
proof  is  to  be  presented,  and  at  what  time?  In  other  words,  are 
you  to  submit  such  proof  of  marriage  at  the  time  you  make  your 
allotment,  or  would  that  develop  from  investigation? 

Judge  Mack,  That  would  develop  from  the  investigation.  Your 
statement  will  he  sufficient  prima  facie. 

A  Member.  Judge  Mack,  my  understanding  is  that  this  blank  is 
also  to  be  filled  out  by  commissioned  officers  for  the  compensation. 

Judge  Mack.  Can  you  fill  out  anything  for  compensation  befoi-e 
you  are  injured?  When  you  are  once  injured,  a  blank  will  be  sup- 
plied, (live  the  full  name  of  a  wife  or  mother  in  the  form  of  "  Sarah 
Jane  Smith"  instead  of  "Mrs.  John  William  Smith." 

Then  comes  the  statement : 

Tliese  allotments  mny  be  waive*!  upon  written  consent  of  wife  or  divorced 
wife,  supported  hy  satisfactory  evidence  as  to  her  ability  to  support  herself  and 
children. 

Yon  may  allot  wlintever  yon  wish  from  your  pay  remainin.?  after  deduetintr 
the  cf'nii)uls«)ry  allotments,  if  any,  to  such  person  or  persons  as  you  direct,  sui>- 
.iect,  however,  to  regulations  pn«cribed  by  the  Secretary  of  War  or  tlie  Secre- 
tary of  the  Navy. 

Allotments  are  not  compulsory  toward  the  support  of  parents  finchnlinj; 
grandjiaients  and  step-parents,  ^Iiether  of  the  man  or  of  the  wife),  jrrand- 
children,  brothers,  and  .•^istei'S,  whether  of  the  whole  or  the  half  blood  or 
throuffh  adoption,  or  stepbrothers  and  stepsisters,  but  must  be  made,  unless 
siMN-ial  exemption  is  Rranted  by  the  bureau,  if  you  want  them  to  get  a  Govern- 
ment allowance.  In  that  event  your  allotment  to  them  must  equal  the  rSovern- 
ment  :illo\\anco  stated  below  except,  first,  that  you  need  not  allot  to  them  more 
than  lialf  your  pay,  and,  second,  that  you  must  allot  1o  them  at  least  .$5  a  montii, 
or  one-seventh  of  yonr  pay,  whichever  is  gi-eater.  if  you  are  allotting  to  wife, 
divorced  wife,  or  cJnld,  riid  at  least  .$15  a  month  if  you  are  not  allotting  to  wiff, 
divt)rced  wife,  or  child. 

A  Member.  The  yeowomen — if  they  make  an  allotment  to  parents, 
will  the  (jovernment  add  to  that? 

Judge  Mack.  Certainly.  I  said  this  morning  that  they  are  going 
to  be  treated  exactly  as  men  would  be  treated  under  the  sanie  circum- 
stances. Now.  if  a  mnn  makes  an  allotment  to  his  j):uents  and  that 
allotment  is  less  than  he  has  iieen  habitually  contributing,  the  Gov- 
ernment will  add  to  the  extent  of  $10  to  one  parent  and  $20  to  two 
parents  and  $5  to  each  additional. 

Judge  Mack  (reading) : 

If  one-half  of  your  pay  is  not  allotted,  regulations  by  the  Secretary  of  War 
or  Se<'retary  of  the  Navy  may  require  that  any  portion  of  such  of  your  half  pay 
as  is  not  allotted  shall  be  deposited  with  inler<*st  Ihercon  tu  yoxir  crtHlit. 

Family  alhnvances  according  to  the  armanit.s  in  the  following  .schedule  will 
be  [)aid  by  the  Unittnl  States  to  jour  wife  or  child  while  y«ni  mic  makliii:  com- 
pulsory allotments  to  them. 

The  monthly  allowance,  however,  sliall  not  esceed  $50. 


G4  LIFE    INSURANCE.    ETC.,   FOR    SOLDIERS   AND    SAILORS. 

Tho  monthly  allowance  to  a  former  Avife  (]ivorce<l  shall  be  p^Jy^^hle  out  of  the 
different-e,  if  any,  between  the  monthly  family  allowance  to  a  wife  and  children 
and  the  s\mi  of  $50. 

For  a  wife  livintr  separate  and  apart,  under  court  order  or  written  ajireement, 
or  to  a  former  wife  divorced,  the  montiily  allowance  to;irether  with  the  allot- 
ment, if  any,  shall  not  exceed  the  amounts  sixK-ilied  in  the  court  order,  decree, 
or  written  agreement  to  be  paid  to  her. 

For  an  illegitimate  child  to  whose  support  the  father  has  been  judicially 
ordered  or  decreed  to  contribute,  it  shall  not  exceed  the  amount  fixed  in  the 
order  or  decree. 

Note. — The  amounts  of  the  allowances  to  others  than  wife,  diYorce<l  wife, 
and  child  will  be  paid  only  if  they  are  actually  dependent  upon  you  and,  added 
to  the  allotment,  shall  not  exceed  the  average  sum  habitually  contributed  by  you 
to  their  support  monthly  during  the  period  of  dependency  but  not  exceeding  a 
year  inmiediately  prcx;eding  your  enlistment  or  October  6,  1917. 

If  any  allowance  is  paid  to  wife,  child,  or  divorced  wife,  the  total  allowance  to 
be  paid  to  the  other  stated  dependents  shall  not  exceed  the  difference  between 
the  total  allowance  paid  to  wife,  child,  and  divorced  wife  and  the  sum  of  $50. 

That  means  that  $50  is  the  most  that  the  Government  Ts-ill  pay  imder 
anj^  circumstances. 

After  YOU  have  that  compulsory  allotment  part  filled  in.  then  the 
voluntary  allotment,  and  the  relationship  to  the  man,  whether  it 
is  his  father,  mother,  sister,  or  brother,  whoever  it  may  be,  you  will 
read,  "  Upon  the  basis  of  the  foregoing  information,  which  I  hereby 
certify  to  be  correct,  I  hereby  apply  for  allowances  for  the  following 
persons."  Here  he  inserts  the  names  of  the  persons  for  whom  he 
Avants  the  allowance — wife,  children,  divorced  wife,  fatlier,  mother, 
brother,  sister,  or  grandchild. 

A  Member.  May  I  ask  one  question  :  What  are  3'ou  going  to  do  when 
you  can  not  reckon  what  the  average  contribution  was? 

Judge  M.vcK.  You  should  reckon  the  best  you  can.  Suppose  a  man 
has  an  old  mother  living  in  his  household.  He  did  not  give  her 
cash.  He  keeps  it  in  the  family.  What  is  that  board  and  living 
worth  ?     He  must  make  an  honest  determination  of  what  that  is  worth. 

A  Member.  Just  what  we  think  would  be  the  amount  tliat  it  would 
cost.     There  is  no  criterion  to  decide  by. 

Judge  Mack.  I  can't  give  you  any.     I  don't  know  of  any. 

A  Member.  If  a  man  gets  $100  a  month,  now,  he  Avill  have  to  allot 
$25? 

Judge  Mack.  He  may  have  to  allot  $50. 

A  Member.  To  wife  and  children? 

Judge  Mack.  That  is  all. 

A  Member.  He  doesn't  have  to  allot  $45,  just  $25,  to  a  wife  and 
one  child? 

Judge  Mack.  Quite  right. 

A  Member.  Then  his  wife  would  get  a  check  for  $50.  Now,  he  has 
got  a  mother  and  grandmother,  and  he  has  got  $15  to  pay  if  he  wants 
to  give  each  one  $25,  and  he  puts  that  down  here.  That  being  the 
case,  the  (xovernment  would  not  add  anything? 

Judge  Mack.  It  will  add  to  that  if  he  has  been  giving  them  more 
than  $25  before. 

A  Member.  He  only  gave  them  $10. 

Judge  Mack.  Then  the  Government  would  not  add  anything, 

A  Memp.er.  The  War  Insurance  Bu.reau  will  send  that  allotment 
to  grandparents,  will  they? 

tjudjre  ^Iack.  Yes. 


UFE   INSURANCE,   ETC.,   FOR   SOLDIERS   AND   SAILORS.  65 

A  MicMBiiK.  The  reason  I  asked  that  is  Ijecause  the  various  depart- 
ments do  tliat  now. 

Judge  Mack.  That  is  a  matter  that  is  going  to  be  reeomniended. 

A  Mkmbkk.  Then  tlie  allotment  is  made  through  this  bureau. 

Judge  Ma(  K.  He  makes  it  on  this  Idank.  They  will  attend  to  hou 
they  send  out  the  checks.  The  counuand"ig  olHcer  need  not  bother 
about  that. 

A  Memukr.  On  the  allotment  formerly  in  use  regulations  formerly 
required  that  the}-  be  witnessed  by  the  company  connuander. 

.Judge  Mack.  Ves. 

A  Member.  Now,  these  can  be  witnessed  by  anybody.  Do  I  undei*- 
stand  rightly? 

Director  De  Lanoy.  They  should  be  witnessed  by  the  conji)any 
commander. 

A  Member.  What  will  become  of  the  allotments  that  are  now  in 
f(uce? 

Judge  Mack.  Well,  the  allotments  that  are  now  in  force  will  be 
subordinated  to  those  that  are  made  in  this  Ijlank,  and  if  a  man  wants 
this  to  take  the  place  of  it.  all  he  needs  to  do  is  to  revoke  the  allotment 
now  in  force.  Any  man  can  revoke  allotments  that  he  has  made. 
Now,  if  he  wants  both  of  them  to  be  kept  up  they  can  be.  If  he  wants 
to  revoke  them,  he  can. 

A  Me:mber.  I  would  like  to  ask  a  question.  There  has  been  some- 
thing said  about  officers  making  allotments.  That  is  not  coxered 
under  this  bill. 

Judge  Mack.  That  has  nothing  to  do  with  this  bill.  Another  law 
provides  that  they  may  make  alloinients,  but  that  has  nothing  to  do 
with  this  bill. 

A  AFember.  In  the  right-hand  corner  is  a  place  for  approval  by  the 
War  Department.  Now,  if  these  forms  go  out  to  different  branches 
of  the  Navy  they  may  think  it  doesn't  api)ly  to  them. 

Judge  Mack.  That  Avill  be  changed  to  War  and  Navy  Depart- 
ments. 

A  Member.  If  I  may  ask  a  question  about  this  allotment:  Suppose 
a  man  is  getting  $50  a'month  and  has  a  wife.  He  is  entitled  to  allot 
$15  or  $20  in  his  case.  Suppose  he  has  a  voluntary  allotment  now  in 
force  under  which  he  is  liable  to  $40  to  his  wife.  That  allotment 
automatically  stops  under  this  legislation. 

Judge  Mack.  S^ot  unless  he  revokes  it.  The  $15,  $20,  or  $25  windd 
be  assumed  to  be  part  of  the  $40. 

A  Me.mber.  Then  if  he  fills  this  out  and  puts  $40  down  here  she 
gets  the  allowance  just  the  same? 

Judge  Mack.  Yes,  she  gets  the  allowance  anyway;  he  asks  for  it. 

A  Member.  He  does  not  have  to  make  two  allotments? 

Judge  Mack.  He  doesn't  make  the  allot uients.  That  is  couipul- 
sory.  If  he  wants  to  make  an  additional  allotment,  let  him  put  his 
wife's  name  down  again. 

A  Member.  The  present  allotment  will  stop? 

Judge  Mack.  Yes. 

A  Member.  Mr.  De  Lanoy  said  this  morning  that  the  old  allot- 
ment would  be  fused  with  the  new.     He  allotted  $20  to  his  wife  and 
now  under  the  bill  she  would  receive  $15  half  pay. 
19808°— 17 5 


66  LIFE   INSURANCE^    ETC.,   FOR   SOLDIERS  AND   SAILORS. 

Judge  Mack.  Yes,  that  is  true ;  if  you  had  heretofore  allotted  $20 
and  fill  out  this  form,  your  compulsory  allotment  would  be  taken  as 
part  of  that  $20,  if  you  say  $20  is  the  total  that  you  want  to  allot. 
The  way  to  do  it  is  this:  If  he  has  a  wife  and  no  child,  his  compul- 
sory allotment  is  ,$15.  Now,  in  the  space  for  additional  voluntary 
allotments  he  will  put  his  wife  down  for  $5 — that  makes  $20  in  all 
out  of  his  pay. 

A  Member.  And  no  other  action  on  the  part  of  the  soldier  neces- 
sary ? 

Judge  Mack.  No.  He  says,  "  I  make  this  allotment  in  addition  to 
the  compulsory  allotment,"  if  any.  He  need  not  as  to  his  wife  and 
children  fill  out  the  habitual  contribution  column.  That  is  only  as 
to  other  dependents.  But  if  he  Avants  his  wife  to  get  more  than  the 
$15  that  he  is  compelled  to  allot,  then  he  fills  in  this  amount  for  the 
additional  allotment  that  he  wants  to  make. 

INSTJRANCE   APPLICATION  FORM. 

This  question  has  been  raised:  If  a  man  takes  out  his  insurance 
now,  he  has  to  pay  for  October;  if  he  waits  until  the  2d  of  Novem- 
ber, he  does  not  have  to  pay  for  October.  That  is  true;  but  it  evens 
itself  up  in  the  long  run.  If  a  man  wants  to  take  the  chance  of  being 
killed  any  day,  he  can  do  so. 

A  Member.  If  he  takes  it  out  now,  he  is  only  charged  for  the  pro- 
portion, isn't  he? 

Director  De  Laxoy.  He  will  have  to  pay  for  the  full  month. 

Judge  Mack.  But  insurance  is  due  from  the  moment  you  take  it 
out.  Suppoise  a  man  takes  it  out  to-day.  The  only  difference  is  that 
instead  of  getting  30  days  credit  he  gets  15  days.  He  does  not  have  to 
pay  any  more.  That  carries  him  not  only  for  the  half  month  already 
passed  but  the  half  month  in  the  future.  While  he  pays  at  the  end 
of  the  calendar  month,  he  is  paying  in  the  middle  of  his  insurance 
month.  He  will  never  have  to  pay  more  than  the  amount  for  that 
month,  because  the  insurance  goes  from  month  to  month.  His  pre- 
mium advances  at  the  thirteenth  monthly  payment. 

A  Membkr.  While  we  are  talking  insurance,  will  you  tell  us  about 
the  beneficiary  on  this  application.  Suppose  a  man  puts  in  his 
wife  and  his  children.  In  case  of  the  death  of  his  wife  and  at  the 
same  time  his,  or  follow^ing  his  own  death,  how  would  it  go?  Sup- 
pose the  wife  and  child  are  both  alive;  does  it  go  to  one  or  both? 

Judge  Mack.  I  ought  to  have  told  you  this.  Now,  you  see,  there 
is  room  there  for  three,  four,  or  five  different  names  and  the  amount 
of  insurance  that  you  w-ant  each  of  them  to  get.  Now,  suppose  you 
want  your  wife  to  get  it  all.  Suppose  you  have  children.  You  really 
need  not  say  anything  about  your  children  if  you  w:nit  j^our  wife  to 
get  it  all  at  first,  because  if  you  were  to  die  your  children  are  your 
heirs;  they  are  the  first  people  to  come  in  after  your  wife.  Suppose 
3'ou  want  your  wife  to  get  half  and  the  children  half;  put  down  your 
wife  for  $5,000  and  your  children  for  the  other  $5,000,  and  then  two 
policies  would  be  issued,  one  to  the  wife  and  one  to  the  children, 
jointly,  and  to  the  survivor  of  them. 

A  Member.  Sup])ose  you  wanted  it  all  to  go  to  the  widow,  if  she 
is  alive,  and  in  the  event  of  her  death  to  your  brother? 

Judge  Mack.  Would  your  brother  be  your  natural  heir,  or  would 
he  not? 


UFE    INSURANCE,    ETC.,    FOR   SOLDIERS    AND    SAILORS.  {\7 

A  Member.  No;  he  might  or  he  miglit  not,  in  accordance  with 
other  lehitives. 

Judge  Mack.  After  your  children  conic  your  brothers  and  sisters, 
according  to  the  hiw  of  some  States. 

A  Memukk.  You  can  have  three  or  four  brothers  and  sisters  alive, 
but  want  one  to  get  it. 

Judge  Mack.  You  could  put  him  in  as  a  contingent  beneficiary  if 
you  want  to. 

A  Member.  That  is  just  what  I  did  do. 

Another  Member.  You  stated  that  the  wife  would  get  the  policy. 
Would  the  ])olicy  be  sent  to  the  beneficiary  or  to  the  insured — the 
policy  itself? 

Judge  Mack.  It  will  be  sent  to  the  man  unless  he  names  someone 
else. 

A  Member.  A  little  while  ago  you  stated  that  in  the  case  of  death 
of  the  soldier  and  there  were  no  heirs  in  the  two  classes  A  and  B 
the  insurance  reverted  to  the  Government.     Is  that  correct? 

Judge  Mack.  Well,  I  didn't  put  it  quite  that  way.  I  don't  loiow 
just  what  you  mean  by  A  and  B. 

A  Member.  The  beneficiary  named  in  the  policy. 

Judge  Mack.  Yes;  in  case  there  was  no  beneficiary  who  came 
within  that  class. 

A  Member.  Then,  how  would  you  interpret  this  part  of  section 
402,  "  If  no  such  person  survive  the  insured,  then  there  shall  be  paid 
to  the  estate  of  the  insured  an  amount  equal  to  the  reserve  value"? 

Judge  Mack.  I  will  explain  that.  I  explained  that  this  forenoon. 
I  explained  it  in  this  way:  That  after  a  man  converts  his  policy,  the 
kind  of  policy  he  gets  has  a  reserve  value,  and  I  explained  that  there 
would  be  paid  to  the  estate  of  the  man,  even  if  he  left  nobody  within 
the  class,  the  amount  for  which  he  could  have  sold  it  to  the  Govern- 
ment the  day  before  he  died,  and  that  is  the  reserve  value  or  sur- 
render value.  This  is  the  amount  which  I  explained  this  morning 
the  Government  saves  up  for  him.  That  is  the  reserve  value.  In 
the  term  insurance  there  is  no  reserve  value;  in  the  convertible  there 
is.  Now,  if  he  dies  and  leaves  nobody  entitled  to  his  insurance,  his 
estate  w'ill  get  that  reserve  value  and  the  rest  will  not  l>e  paid. 

A  Member.  I  want  to  ask:  There  are  tw^o  limits  that  have  been 
specified,  two  compulsory  limits — one  is  not  less  than  $1.")  and  the 
(Ahev  is  nc  t  m.ore  than  half  yoin-  pay.  Now,  won't  that  be  covered 
largely  by  the  number  of  dependents? 

Judge  Mack.  Altcgether  by  the  nuniber  of  dependents;  because 
the  allotment  is  equal  to  what  the  Government  gives  subject  to  these 
two  limitations.  Now,  suppose  the  Government  gives  $32.r)0  to  a 
wife  and  two  children.  That  means  the  allotment  must  be  $32. ^O. 
But  there  are  two  limits.  It  can't  be  less  than  $15.  But  it  can't 
be  more  than  half  his  pay.  So  that  if  he  gets  $-10  pav  lie  must 
allot  $20. 

A  Member.  Then  a  man,  if  he  has  a  wife  who  wants  an  allotment 
of  $15  from  the  Government,  only  has  to  ])ut  up  $15,  irrc-^pective  of 
the  renuirements? 

Judge  Mack.  There  is  no  other  requirement.  The  requirement, 
subject  to  these  limitations,  is  that  he  put  up  what  the  (lovern- 


68  LIFE    INSURANCE,   ETC.,   FOR    SOLDIERS   AND   SAILORS. 

ment  allows.  The  Government  puts  up  $15  and  he  ptits  up  $15. 
Take  the  case  of  a  $30  private  who  has  one  child,  no  wife.  The 
Government  puts  np  $5.  What  must  he  put  up?  He  must  put  up  at 
least  $15  aud  at  most  $15.  He  equals  the  Government  allowance  but 
with  a  minimum  of  $15.  And  even  if  he  had  $50  pay  he  would  have 
to  put  up  only  $15  and  the  Government  $5  for  that  one  child;  but  he 
could  voluntarily  allot  more. 

A  Memrer.  In  the  case  of  an  allotment  of  a  man  who  has  no  wife 
or  children,  but  has  another  to  whom  he  wishes  to  send  a  sum  of 
money,  what  is  necessary  to  be  done? 

Judofe  Mack.  Then  he  makes  a  voluntary  allotment  and  he  doesn't 
ask  for  any  allowance.  He  wouldn't  get  it,  anyway,  except  for  a 
member  of  class  B. 

A  Member.  Should  the  Secretary  of  Wf  r  or  Secretary  of  the  Xavy 
provide  regulations  for  compulsory  deposits  in  an  outside  fund, 
would  it  have  to  be  refunded  in  monthly  payments  by  the  Govern- 
ment ? 

Judge  !Mack.  Xo:  there  is  no  basis  for  that. 

A  Member.  I  want  to  present  the  following  resolution : 

We,  the  members  of  this  conference,  express  onr  deepest  appreciation  of  the 
efforts  and  kindness  of  the  officials  aud  their  associates  who  have  so  patiently 
presei\ted.  explained,  and  discussed  the  various  matters  pertaining  to  thi«  con- 
ference. 

^Ye  present  that  as  a  slight  testimony  of  our  appreciation  of  your 
efforts. 

Judge  Mack.  Xow.  gentlemen,  on  behalf  of  my.  associates  as  well 
as  myself,  of  course.  I  acknowledge  your  expression  and  I  want  to 
rei:)eat  what  I  think  I  said — if  I  did  not  say  it.  I  ought  to  have  said  it 
at  the  outset  of  my  remarks  on  Tuesda}' — that  I  can  never  be  tha.ik- 
ful  enough  for  the  real  privilege  that  came  my  way  in  having  been 
given  this  sort  of  an  opportunity,  an  opportunity  that  accords  so 
fully  with  my  personal  wishes.  If  I  had  been  asked  to  choose  the 
sort  of  war  service  that  I  should  like  to  perform,  it  would  have  been 
just  this  sort  of  service.  No  man  deserves,  no  man  wants  thanks  for 
what  he  is  doing  in  connection  with  this  war.  Each  one  of  us  is  en- 
deavoring to  do  the  best  he  can,  ought  to  be  endeavoring  to  do  the 
best  he  can  in  whatever  field  he  has  been  called  or  has  volunteered 
or  has  been  drafted  into  the  service  of  his  country.  TVe  are  all 
fellow  workers  for  the  same  cause.  One  is  doing  one  thing,  the 
other  is  doing  the  other.  Our  end  and  object  is  the  same — to  make 
our  side  prevail,  in  order  that  civilization  may  be  bettered,  in 
order  that  the  opportunity  for  every  man  on  the  face  of  the  earth 
may  be  increased,  in  order  that  democracy  may  prevail.  And  the 
full  spirit  of  democracy  at  home  would  never  prevail  if  the  whole 
people  failed  to  give  at  least  a  reasonable  measure  of  justice  to  each 
one  within  his  sphere.  This  act  is  intended,  as  I  said  at  the  outset, 
to  grant  that  reasonable  measure  of  justice  to  those  of  you  who  are 
going  to  encounter  the  risks  that  you  are  facing,  that  you  will  face 
on  behalf  of  your  fellow  citizens  and  on  behalf  of  the  world.  It  has 
been  a  very  great  pleasure  to  me,  a  tremendous  inspiration  for  me  to 
be  able  to  be  with  you.  and  I  am  sure  that  I  shall  be  excused  for 
departing  from  my  official  duties  on  the  bench,  the  position  in  which 


UFE   INSUiUNCK,    ETC.,    FOR    SOLDIERS    AND   SAILORS.  69 

I  am  appoiiiU'tl  primarily  to  serve  my  I'ellow  citizens,  in  order  that  1 
might  be  able  to  lielp  along  in  the  luiderstanding  and  in  the  admin- 
istration of  this  particular  act. 

I  express  to  you  thanks  on  behalf  of  the  Treasury  Department, 
although  I  am  not  authorized  to  speak  for  it.  I  have  nothing  tO(lo 
Avith  the  Treasury  Department,  except  as  a  volunteer.  I  wish, 
on  behalf  of  your  fellow  citizens  generally,  to  express  to  you  their 
thanks  for  the  work  that  you  are  going  to  do  for  your  fellows  in  the 
Army  and  the  Navy  as  the  result  of  the  information  that  3'oii  will 
take  with  you  from  these  three  days  of  conference  here. 

1  trust  that  the  whole  proceedings  have  been  mutually  helpfid 
and  mutually  stimulating.  I  know  that  from  our  side  thty  have 
been  greatly  so. 

Director  De  Lanoy.  Now,  as  far  as  the  director  is  concerned,  the 
bi"-  task  is  ahead  of  him.  I  want  you  to  feel  that  you  can  come  to  nie 
personally  or  by  letter.  I  stand  here,  and  will  continue  to  do  so, 
with  an  open  mind.  I  want  all  the  suggestions,  all  the  help,  you  can 
give  me.     Please  be  patient.     I  will  do  my  best. 


o 


